Selling/Displaying Models You Did Not Design

[gordigami]

While the selling of models designed by others may be controversial, I believe that it is a relatively simple matter of common sense and respect.
Mr. Joseph Wu is entirely correct !
Designers are somewhat readily contacted via internet.
Each designer has already done the bulk of labor by creating a model.
That designer deserves a portion of gain realized from the sale of his work, as well as final say in whether a sale should take place at all .
" Good faith" mentality, as well as ethics should dominate the interaction.
Just my two cents' worth ...

[qtrollip]

I cant believe Im getting into this discussion.

If someone wanted to give me $5 for a folded model, I'd either give it to them for free or if it was something that took a long time to make, I'd tell them exactly where to stick their $5!
If they offered me more, ie as if buying a piece of art, I wont sell it to them. I'd do my best to get them in contact with the designer/creator of that specific model.
If it was my own design they wanted to buy, same thing. I'd either give it away for free or not at all!

I have had many requests on this forum and flickr and emails for diagrams. I am generally generous when it comes to that. If I have drawn diagrams, I hand them out for free. Do you know how many people never even go to the trouble of replying to say that they got the diagrams or even say thanx. And the best of all is when people contact me and "demand" diagrams, ie "I want diagrams of your so and so, can you send it to me?" ?????

And to refer back to Joseph's reply. I hope he did not mean ciao as in bye to this forum for good! We all know very well that he has brought interest and has exposed origami to more people than pretty much anyone else (in the world), and now it is those same peolpe that he got into origami (directly or indirectly) who are causing us to lose a valuable source to this forum!!!

Maybe that is the very same reason we don't see the Dr Langs of this world regularly on this forum, due to the arrogance and disrespect of some of its members!

[araknoid]

must shut up - have to shut up - better to shut up...

aaaaaarg!

mr arrogance, with his unified w.a.s.p. theory of moral behaviour, along with his well-known joyful posts, is leaving the discussion?

thank the heavens!

"oh, yes, i'm that mister mister, but please call me buddy ok? i'm so humble and nice..."

come on you sleepy head maybe you'll wake up by 2012.

and thank you for having ruined a lot of nice talk between people who love origami and just want to exchange info and maybe share experiences.

take your money and respect talk elsewhere!
this forum was so nice before you started to bomb it everywhere with your obnoxious narrow minded comments.

you seem to picture every origamist as an enemy, ready to steal something or maybe even better, in your self-made man phantasies, ready to build up a origami factory to get more money than you have.
get reaaaaaaal!

i do hate every post you write: always preaching, always accusatory, always so full of bad feelings that i would strongly suggest you to go and get some tranquilizers.

come on fellow origamists cheer up and fold!

and if a small boy in africa or iran or latveria gets 1 dollar for a brilliant (ahahahahahah) origami (just to name another hatemonger) well i'll be more than happy for him.

the war against the secret society of stealers is elsewhere ok?
here we like to talk about folding, if you didn't notice.

and i'm so tired of this money talk.

and about morality and respect i would suggest you to read (if you can manage to understand it) some heidegger, jankélévitch, or some other stupid philosopher who you probably "value" (like the verb you sleepy head?) very poorly from the highness of your crumbling mount olimpus.

so mr.know it all.,
apo pantos kakodaimonos, apo pantos kakodaimonos, apo pantos kakodaimonos.

[araknoid]

Designers are somewhat readily contacted via internet.

really? the only one who actually took the time to be kind to me was sipho mabona, and i was only greeting him.

otherwise all i've found were no responses at all, and only once i asked info on how to get a diagram (not the diagram itself)

maybe they know i keep lost lab test animals down the cellar.

[Ondrej.Cibulka]

it's a matter of respect.

Yes, you are right, it is about respect, which is problematic in today-fast life. Overall problem, with respect to seniors, to parents, to teachers, to artists... Not that "teacher makes respect over his students" but natural respect to the teacher from his position.

I am still trying to make your wild boar from partial CP (very annoying topic, still the same, I am sorry) and still without success. So I have big respect to all people who can make models from CP! It is for me unbelievable.

And about selling designs of other authors? If I paint reproduction of some famos Monet's paint, can I sell it as reproduction of Monet? I do not know, I am not a lawyer. (Or reproduction of life-painter.)

Other thing is publishing of diagrams. I like (for example) nice simple model in Harbin's book of other author than Harbin. I would like to publish it in my book for children because it is very good for practice. I would like to draw diagram for it, write authors name in my book but I do not know, if I can do it. That person probalby do not exist (=folded just this one model, folded origami for just two monthes and noone knows where he/she is - is moved to the India ocean, fishing somewhere on the shore out of civilisation... who knows). What can I do?

[Ondrej.Cibulka]

I did not read whole thread before my post.

Now I see, it is absolutely scabrous.

I am very sorry about Araknoid's words. Unfortunately, I understood almost everything.

His relationship to masters Wu and Brill is similar to that one of Anna to master Joisel, but araknoid's one is really... bad.

It needs some commentary, but who will be so strong?

Araknoid, your word-attack to masters Wu and partially to master Brill is absolutely uncalled-for. Cold down and make an apology to Joseph Wu and David Brill for this post.

[Daydreamer]

And if Joseph blames the whole forum to be deaf and disrespectful, because not everybody agrees with his ideas, it is okay?

[araknoid]

apologies?
you're joking of course.

just thank the heavens i'm in a good mood cause otherwise i would show them what bad is about.
but the rule is "no politics here" so i'll leave out some pretty interesting points.
poor shelley, poor plato.

i should be the one to recieve apologies as almost all good folders here for being constantly treated like criminals, stealers, moral junkies, and, (that's what gets me really cross) stupid ignorants.

well, we are not.
keep that very clear in your mind.

and they will not treat me or anyone like this without getting some.
i'm so damn tired of these "masters" who think they are talking to sheeps.

the time for preachers is up babies.
21st century here we come!

[origamimasterjared]

It's called a donation. If they ask you to sell it to them, and you say

• All right, I have to contact so-and-so first to see if I'm allowed to. It will probably be $100. Leave me your name and number and I'll get back to you in a week. But I can give it you for free right now. Just know that it was authored by so-and-so, and I have only interpreted it.

and they say

• Thanks, but here's $10 anyhow.

Take it not as an insult to the value of your work, but as a donation from a happy fellow human. Then use that $10 to buy another piece of paper or lunch.

Also, as far as it being really easy to contact the creator, you know that's not always the case. Say you don't know who the creator is. That makes it difficult. And people who don't have websites? Those whose email address is not readily available (net-etiquette -- don't post others' contact online), or who don't regularly check/respond to email? Language barrier gets in the way sometimes too.

[origami_8]

For what it's worth, I know Dave Brill as a really nice and sharing person, but I have to agree with a lot of the arguments brought by Araknoid and origamimasterjared. The world isn't just black and white.
My respect for everyone creating a model and trying to share it's folding sequence with others is very high, but I do not like arrogance. Sorry Joe, but you are acting very arrogant.

Thank you Araknoid for speaking free from your heart.
Lets go folding

[araknoid]

thanks anna.
you're my guardian angel.

i kiss you dearly.
simone

ps sorry for the jack nicholson act... but as you said my heart was bleeding and i only wish wonderful origami for everybody.

grazie anna

[Joseph Wu]

Sorry Joe, but you are acting very arrogant.

Thank you Araknoid for speaking free from your heart.

I argue my position, and I'm acting very arrogant.

Araknoid lashes out in clear violation of rule #2 of this forum, and is considered to be speaking free from the heart.

Well, that pretty much sums it up then. Obviously, whatever I say will be taken in the worst possible light, so there really is no point in staying here. So, yes, goodbye. Enjoy your freedom to take potshots at me in my absence. BTW, Araknoid, do you remember the times I complimented your work? Oh, but those don't count because obviously they were veiled accusations of you being a criminal.

[araknoid]

come on joe let's be human.

you know i don't like fingers pointed at and try my best.
i'm sure you wouldn't also.
and i know you made a difference out there.

if there's someone who has to go, it's certainly me.

but we don't have to go away.

we should disagree, it's good to have an argument.
(cfr the strokes first album - music is so good!)

i'll reread rule n2, sorry not to remember it correctly.
just want us to be clear with each other, and i'm not going to hide when i'm hurt.

sorry for being so cocky - hope it can improve our conversation which i'm sure could go very far from this melting grounds.

so let's pm each other or meet or whatever you like, public or not.

we just have to be friends.

love
s.

ps. otherwise, you still have my respect - human to human - walking the path towards

[araknoid]

pss i reread n2 rule.
feel that backing up arguments with literate captions or themes is not disrespectful.
on the contrary, offers the "challenged" a way to build up creative discussion.

[Adam]

Sorry Joe, but you are acting very arrogant.

Thank you Araknoid for speaking free from your heart.

I argue my position, and I'm acting very arrogant.

Araknoid lashes out in clear violation of rule #2 of this forum, and is considered to be speaking free from the heart.

Well, that pretty much sums it up then. Obviously, whatever I say will be taken in the worst possible light, so there really is no point in staying here. So, yes, goodbye. Enjoy your freedom to take potshots at me in my absence.

You talk about respect - even better - you demand respect, yet you point out that the entire forum is ignorant and never pays attention to you. That's pretty offensive, and doesn't help you in any way to gain respect. You can't demand respect, you have to earn it.

And to refer back to Joseph's reply. I hope he did not mean ciao as in bye to this forum for good! We all know very well that he has brought interest and has exposed origami to more people than pretty much anyone else (in the world), and now it is those same peolpe that he got into origami (directly or indirectly) who are causing us to lose a valuable source to this forum!!!

Quentin, I don't quite understand this. I googled for Joseph Wu after reading your post but I didn't really see how he 'exposed origami to more people than anyone else in the world'. Perhaps you mixed him up with Yoshizawa? You're giving him credit for creating the origami community as it is now. And now he's the victim of 'all those people that he helped'? I never really noticed that he tried to 'spread the joy' of Origami - oh my, that probably sounded rather cheesy - around the world; In fact, he doesn't like diagramming, because "he doesn't have to do it".

if there's someone who has to go, it's certainly me.

Quite the opposite. Nobody should go. This is exactly what forums are for; discussing things. Not everyone has to agree, and there is no right or wrong side. Joe, however, doesn't seem to realise this and prefers to run away...


Anyway, to get back on-topic:
I'm not against displaying models created by others, as long as you give them credit for it. Selling models is something I wouldn't really do, because I'd probably feel guilty about it. And I have yet to see a situation as origamimasterjared described, but I would see that as a compliment for both the designer and the folder of the origami model.