Custom origami diagramming software worthwhile to code?

[Cadix]

I'm considering trying to write some diagramming software targeted at origami. But before I embark, I'd like to get a feel for a few things, if some of you don't mind helping me out. I'm wondering, first, if people feel that vector drawing programs are good enough and wouldn't bother switching even if new, origami-specific software was available. Second, if origami-specific diagramming software is appealing, what features would you like to see that are not available in a typical vector drawing or CAD program, and possibly what features need to be carried over.

My preferred platforms are Mac OS X (desktop), iOS (iPad specifically), or Cappucino/Objective-J (web), though I'd be willing to consider a cross-platform written in Python and Qt.

I've browsed the forums, and read Tung Ken Lam's thesis on improving origami design software user experience, but I don't find myself significantly more enlightened (which is not a criticism of his thesis, but more my ability to absorb the subject matter among other things). Please forgive me if this is a duplicate topic... my search was not exhaustive.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

(Edit: changed topic to be more accurate)

[spiritofcat]

One feature I'd like to see is a way for the diagramming program to automatically calculate crease placement for steps like "Fold this edge to meet that edge", or "Fold so that this point meets the intersection of these two creases", or even just "Fold to bisect this angle".
In my limited experience with inkscape it has been great at drawing lines, but I haven't found any good ways of placing lines exactly where I want them except by snapping to a grid, and that only really works for whole unit co-ordinates. Things like 1:1+sqrt2 are very hard to plot manually.

[Falcifer]

You might consider changing the title to "origami diagramming software", rather than design. Only because I would be more interested in design software than diagramming software.

Since there aren't any programs that are aimed specifically at origami, they all tend to have some sort of compromise. They all come with a learning curve, too, so I imagine that people would be hesitant to change anyway.

However, I would certainly appreciate something specifically for origami.

I haven't done much diagramming, but I've always noticed a lack of fold lines which start and end properly (i.e. each end has a dash, rather than ending wherever the valley/mountain line ends, which is occasionally at a gap or in the middle of the dotted portion of the line).
Direction arrows which are automatically curved would be nice, too.

Any other features I can think of would be obvious inclusions.

I do have another idea which turns the software more into an origami simulator. Basically, you would start with a square (or other shape), input your crease line(s) and the software would generate the next step automatically, showing any crease lines that you've made (which could be removed individually).
I would prefer to only be viewing one step at a time. Either the other steps don't exist in the GUI or they're hidden in some way. Obviously, you should be able to move between steps and insert/delete as appropriate.

Being able to alter the layout of the diagrams - number of steps per page and per line, and whether you want them in left-to-right, top-to-bottom, or the Tanteidan style where the diagrams flow back and forth across the page.
Exporting to images or PDF or HTML would be good.

As I say, it seems like it would be more of an origami simulator than diagramming software, which would be more work, since you'd also need to make it diagramming software on top of that.

You may already be aware of these but just in case, here they are:

Lang's Origami Simulator
Tomohiro Tachi's Software (it is Windows software, but there are articles about each piece of software)

I imagine that this is more than you want to put into the software but it's pretty much what I think of when I think of new origami software.

[Cadix]

So far, it sounds like there is more interest in simulation software than in diagramming software. I agree that is more fun, but I'd really like to take as much of the sting out of diagramming as I can, because communication of models is pretty important to the community at large. Also, my skill set lends itself more to a diagram editor than anything involving actual design.

In the end, I think I envision something like OmniGraffle: Origami Edition with a scripting engine and support for geometry and some structural operations, like grouping items into units (which can be further grouped).

I have some more… esoteric ideas, like exploded views of multiple layers, and linking objects between layers, but this is all just floating around in my head, so goodness knows if these ideas are worthwhile or not.

In any event, thank you for the feedback, it is appreciated.

[Falcifer]

In that case, I'll list some ideas for diagramming software features;

- ability to specify a "snap to" angle/grid
- direction arrows which are already curved
- fold lines which end with a dash no matter what length they are
- ability to extend fold lines past the model
- ability to convert lines (e.g. if I duplicate a step, I can convert a fold line into a crease line or an edge)
- layout editor, with an option to add text (if I add text to some steps, the ones below should move further down the page to compensate)
- export to various formats (PDF, HTM, and image formats)
- ability to measure an angle and then dissect it and input a line based on that angle
- layered editing (i.e. if I fold some paper over the top of the model, the model beneath the part I've folded isn't visible, but all of the lines, etc. are intact)

I don't know about anyone else but I find it difficult sometimes when I have to repeat some complicated steps in mirror, so the option to copy and "paste mirrored" would be good.

And as spiritofcat said, being able to create fold lines based on bringing points or other lines together would be nice.

The less bogged down it is with features that get used only once in a great while, the better.

One idea, once it's done, would be to duplicate some diagrams from various books and see if the software falls short anywhere. Or look through various books before you start and see what sorts of things you would need/want in order to create the diagrams.

[qtrollip]

Falcifer, all those things you mentioned in your previous posts are possible in the program I use - TurboCad.

In my mind TurboCad is more user-friendly than AutoCad and also much more affordable.
But it's not origami specific, so it has many other tools as well that you won't need.
I'm surprised there's not more people that use Cad for diagramming.

[Sunburst]

I fully support the idea of a diagram-only software. I like using Oripa to draw crease patterns. Something similar that would be as easy to use but for both crease patterns and diagrams would be great for me.

The only diagramming experience I got is using inkscape. While it does the work, I find it working with polygons annoying for diagramming. It'd be great if you could snap lines and polygons so that they move together. Another feature I'd love to see is the option to both use grid snapping and angle/length input.

I have to say, though, autoCAD does seems like a good software for origami diagramming.

[mummykicks]

Most CAD software provides the functionality required, with varying degrees of usability.
I think the thing that is missing from Origami is an approachable means to understand and fold cp's.
Being able to animate the collapse sequence would be very cool, but represents a far more complex piece of software than a 2D sketcher.
I think the real answer is video...

[Falcifer]

Falcifer, all those things you mentioned in your previous posts are possible in the program I use - TurboCad.

In my mind TurboCad is more user-friendly than AutoCad and also much more affordable.
But it's not origami specific, so it has many other tools as well that you won't need.
I'm surprised there's not more people that use Cad for diagramming.

Thanks for the info, Quentin!

Most CAD software provides the functionality required, with varying degrees of usability.
I think the thing that is missing from Origami is an approachable means to understand and fold cp's.
Being able to animate the collapse sequence would be very cool, but represents a far more complex piece of software than a 2D sketcher.
I think the real answer is video...

It's not perfect, but Tomohiro Tachi's Rigid Origami Simulator allows you to open an ORIPA crease pattern and view a 3-dimensional sequence. With the one crease pattern I tried, there were some steps where a couple of layers overlapped/intersected, but it's worth a look, I think.

[OrigamiGeek]

cool I am doing the same thing! but in a different language. mine is being developed in a programming language called squeak

[Cadix]

OrigamiGeek: Awesome to hear you are designing diagramming software. I've heard of Squeak, but haven't used it. How far along are you? Maybe we could collaborate rather than having independent projects...

[OrigamiGeek]

that sounds great!
I started not so long ago I have not got much yet though just a tiny bit done I am very slow. I am not too experience in squeak because I just started learning it a year ago. but squeak is not one of those programming languages that you would learn just to learn because it is very hard to learn. tell me if you are going to learn squeak because it is not very well documented and I can show you some things that might help you!

[the modern einstein]

I would like to see an end result designing program in place, which focuses on the base you produce, from a crease pattern you have designed yourself. It's not that it creates a crease pattern based on the number of points you put in, but more on the base that would result from a crease pattern, and how you can manipulate that base to your advantage, collapse it, and edit it, so that it reflects in the crease pattern as well. more of a direct fold edit to the base, than putting a crease on the pattern.It's kind of like an extension to treemaker. mummykicks mentioned something like it above. mind you, it would be complicated to program...

[maddoghoek100]

well i suppose i will mention a pet peeve of mine. I use illustrator and it does the job once you set some customer templates and brushed for arrows,

but, the inside reverse fold would be interesting to automate.

If a line were drawn and then placed between two layers, showing a dotted line in the overlap would be very cool, rather than using three line segments, two solid and one dotted.

[OrigamiGeek]

@cadix can you give me an answer or are you still thinking
(about collaborating)