Strengthening paper

thut · Post by **thut** » April 24th, 2006, 10:31 am

What about Thai unryu paper?

wolf · Post by **wolf** » April 24th, 2006, 10:56 am

If the crease isn't too sharp, you should be able to remove it. Try experimenting a bit to see how it behaves.

thut · Post by **thut** » April 25th, 2006, 12:34 am

I want the creases to be visible, I am in the middle of folding a model and the paper is too weak to continue, so I was planning to unfold it and apply PVA and then start again.

kaerusan · Post by **kaerusan** » April 28th, 2006, 6:35 pm

dear wolf i have a question:
in the D20 origami challenge Topic i see your fabulous creations,and the results you've obtained with Methyl Cellulose are

i'm a newbie in the MC experimentation,i've obtained a few good results with it but my major problems come with the proportion of MC that i have to mix with water...
in this book M.G.LAFOSSE preconize 1vol of MC for 10vol of water but in this proportion i didn't obtain a satisfying result,the paper are not enough stiffness and not so crispy(i use tissue paper and mulberry paper about 18g/m2 and 25g/m2)

so my question

with very thin paper in what proportion do you mix MC and water??
thanks

wolf · Post by **wolf** » April 29th, 2006, 2:31 am

kaerusan wrote:so my question with very thin paper in what proportion do you mix MC and water??

I use a fairly concentrated solution, roughly 30 grams of MC per litre of water. At this point it's closer to a gel than a liquid.

Even so, applying this to 20-30gsm paper doesn't give you a crispy sheet if you just let it sit there to dry. The surrounding air humidity is a big factor. MC is very hygroscopic, so it'll tend to suck in whatever water is around it, ad the paper will never be completely dry. So if you're stuck in a place with high humidity (above 70-80%), you'll need to dry the paper a bit more just before folding - I just microwave it, but a dry iron can be used as well.

phil · Post by **phil** » April 29th, 2006, 4:41 am

kaerusan wrote:the paper are not enough stiffness and not so crispy(i use tissue paper and mulberry paper about 18g/m2 and 25g/m2)

I had the same problem with the thin mulberry paper. I was using MC mixed to the consistency of thick honey and the paper would come out springy. I ended up spreading the MC on the mulberry paper, laying a piece of regular tissue paper over it then filpping it over. The result was stiffer and crisper. I used it to fold Satoshi Kamiya's Ancient Dragon, here's a picture.

kaerusan · Post by **kaerusan** » April 29th, 2006, 6:03 am

first thanks for the reply

wolf wrote: So if you're stuck in a place with high humidity (above 70-80%), you'll need to dry the paper a bit more just before folding - I just microwave it, but a dry iron can be used as well.

i don't think where i live the humidity are so high so i will test the microwave and a higher concentration of MC...

phil wrote: I ended up spreading the MC on the mulberry paper, laying a piece of regular tissue paper over it then filpping it over. The result was stiffer and crisper.

i think i don't understand your method;
-you "only" put a sheet of tissue paper onto your mulberry paper??like a sort of gluing 2 sheets of paper together with MC??

your ancient dragon is AWESOME

i love this yellow dragon!!

phil · Post by **phil** » April 29th, 2006, 6:41 am

kaerusan wrote: i think i don't understand your method;
-you "only" put a sheet of tissue paper onto your mulberry paper??like a sort of gluing 2 sheets of paper together with MC??

your ancient dragon is AWESOME
i love this yellow dragon!!

Thanks.
Yeah It's basically glueing the tissue paper to the mulberry paper. I brushed the MC onto the Mulberry paper, rolled up the tissue paper on a tube then unrolled it onto the wet MC mulberry paper. I then flipped the two sheets that are stuck together upside upside down and let them dry.

thut · Post by **thut** » April 29th, 2006, 7:02 am

If I am using PVA instead of MC how much should I dilute the PVA?

EricGjerde · Post by **EricGjerde** » May 12th, 2006, 2:56 pm

For what it's worth, I use cans of heavy spray starch to treat sheets of Unryu for folding. Since most spray starches contain sodium carboxymethylcellulose, they work quite well (depending on the concentration, of course).

If you're in the US, my favorite out of the dozen or so I have tested is Niagara brand Heavy Spray Starch. It doesn't specifically name MC as the ingredient, but as near as I can tell that is what they all use.

I just lay out a sheet of paper (typically I treat 1m x .7m sheets) on a flat surface- I use our glass table at home. Liberally spray the paper until it is well soaked, and then use a roller to flatten it out and remove as many air bubbles as possible (the downside of using spray cans, really).

Depending on your paper size, it might take quite a few hours to dry- doing things to hurry the drying process (hair dryers, heaters, etc) have bad effects in my experience. Once it is dry it should release itself from the surface quite easily. *MAKE SURE TO CLEAN THE SURFACE BEFORE YOU DO ANOTHER SHEET*. or you WILL be scraping off a layer of paper with a razor blade :)

I also have had good success using a dry iron, and ironing out treated paper between two sheets of linen or cotton fabric. This works better with smaller pieces, especially if I'm in a hurry.

Of course, this is primarily relevant to folding tessellations and not for folding figures- I like my paper to be springy and crisp, but too crisp that it cracks.

The other upshot is that spray starch is about $1 USD a can (big cans, too) so it's a pretty minimal cost to give it a try.

-Eric Gjerde

kalman · Post by **kalman** » May 12th, 2006, 6:52 pm

Hi

I use a water-based matte lacker that a friend gave me (sorry I don't know its name; he gets it from a hobby shop). It is this white stuff that looks a little like Elmers glue. I apply it with a wide brush and wait at least a half hour, then fold when it stops feeling sticky. The lacquer changes the paper's look only slightly, but makes it much tougher--so it's especially good for fancy thin papers that tend to rip. Little or no bubbles, wrinkles etc in the preparation. When the model dries it is stiff, like in wet-folding; sometimes I add a surface coat then.

Don't forget to wash the brush out right away in water, and for good measure let it soak in a cup too.

Kalman

origamifan · Post by **origamifan** » May 27th, 2006, 2:13 pm

Can you ''break'' a sheet of paper?
can your Origami model be broken?
Is your model water-resist?

After completing a model i always apply a sort of super glue to it. the model will be as hard as rock and never can be torn or get wet. The layers
hold as well. No tear,no wet,no fear of heat ,no... and no... what else do you want from a paper? But the only weakpoitnt is that it can be broken under strong force.

esato · Post by **esato** » June 7th, 2006, 7:04 pm

I have finally found and bought me some methyl cellulose!!!

I found out CMC is also used in the food industry. I found it in a cook supply shop.

wolf · Post by **wolf** » June 8th, 2006, 2:13 am

Makes you wonder about the food you eat, no?

You might want to check though, that it's pure CMC and doesn't contain anything else like sugars and preservatives.

thedeadsmellbad · Post by **thedeadsmellbad** » June 8th, 2006, 2:19 am

But wouldn't that make the model sweet and last forever?