To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

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ginshun
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by ginshun »

origami_8 wrote:
ginshun wrote:The whole thing about having to be made from one square with no cuts, "purism" movement, is a relatively new think to origami - having become prevalent only in the last 15 or 20 years.
Make it 50. I'm folding for a good 30 years now and I can assure you that it was already a thing when I started with Origami in my childhood.

It was a thing, but I don't think it was really as big of a thing as it is now. One of the first origami books that I ever got was Lang's "Complete Book of Origami" which was in the late 80's, That book has several models from rectangles and triangles. I think that the whole "purism" thing was probably just taken to new heights with the advent of the internet.

All that said, I am of the group that agrees that it is much more satisfying to fold something from a square, but I don't shy away from the model if it doesn't and i don't have any problem with glues or wires for shaping a final model. I don't like cuts though, that's just cheating. :mrgreen:
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Baltorigamist »

Froy wrote:And purist need to face the fact that adding MC or Wet folding is not purism at all.
I'm curious what kind of solutions there are to this problem if it's true. (Besides foil paper, I'm not familiar with (m)any papers that will easily hold their shape without glue. I'm talking about models that need a lot of shaping, such as insects and arthropods.)
chesscuber98 wrote:I really like Michael LaFosse's definition. Its Origami as long as the process of sculpting the sheet of paper is metamorphic in nature. Adding glue is not an additive process so to say, it simply aids the metamorphosis. But if the same glue is used to stick different sheets together(i.e. the paper no longer remains a square) then it will not be true to Origami.
This. That's why I'm not opposed to using foil paper and MC if it's necessary for a given model.
Of course, if there are other solutions, let me know. P:
Scoopey wrote:Whilst I will do modular origami with fancy paper locks I tend to avoid models such as dinosaurs where the top is glued to the bottom and would ordinarily fall off without it. I personally feel if glue is used to merely neaten up the end result and helps for longevity then you haven't really cheated. I did not in one of Michael LaFosse's books he suggested putting in rolled up and flattened foil to make legs rigid.

As for square only paper - Not quite sure where I stand on that one as you could make a rectangle by folding in the edges...it would be awkward to fold afterwards mind! Square only would also rule out dollar bill origami and there are some fantastic (read Won Park) designs out there...
I don't see why origami has to be entirely "purist" or "non-purist." Why can't there be different kinds of origami (i.e., modular, non-square paper, etc.)? It's the same with tessellations that are done from hexagons.
I've already seen someone on this forum say that the Chinese modular units weren't origami, and while I don't appreciate them as much as I do single-sheet models, they still have a place in the art. There are some great modulars and dollar-bill models out there, and I don't see a reason to exclude them from origami--even if they're not "purist enough."
I used to fold modulars all the time, but I moved to "purist" origami a few years ago because I found it boring to fold the same model (module) dozens of times over. But those are still origami.


NOTE: When I say I don't appreciate the Chinese units as much as other origami, I mean that just about every model I've seen using them has one of two structures. As a result, it's essentially the same as attaching several sheets together to form a non-geometric shape. (I feel modulars are supposed to be geometric, as are tessellations.)
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Froy »

Baltorigamist wrote: I don't see why origami has to be entirely "purist" or "non-purist." Why can't there be different kinds of origami (i.e., modular, non-square paper, etc.)?
This is the point!

The therm Origami has been narrowed to much.

It is like music. Not because, for example, you hear a piece played by orchestra and then the same piece played by a string quartet is no longer music.

Not because it genre, the music is not longer music.

The same with origami. Just because the shape of the sheet, number of pieces or technic the origami is not longer origami.

Origami as a therm defines a whole craft, not just a single branch of the tree.
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by roodborst »

Unless papercraft is the tree, then origami, kirigami, modulars and chinese units are the branches.
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Baltorigamist »

Froy wrote:And purist need to face the fact that adding MC or Wet folding is not purism at all.
Froy wrote: Origami as a therm defines a whole craft, not just a single branch of the tree.
Why do you draw the line between purism and non-purism so heavily, or even at all, if origami is defined as the entire art? To me, it's all origami, albeit different styles.

Rood -> Technically origami, kirigami, and papier mache are the branches, and modulars (including Chinese units) branch off of origami. At least, that's how I see it.
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by origami_8 »

Origami means paper folding (oru=folding kami=paper) so per definition it is just that and nothing more.
If you want to include all paper art, call your tree paper art.

Purism is a personal target, no generally accepted rule. Therefore everyone can choose the boundaries of Origami for himself, but the question is whether it then should be called Origami any more or whether another name would maybe fit better.

My personal rule set is: any regular polygon (including rectangles of any lengths), no cuts, no glue, modular allowed if it holds together on its own. But that is only what I stick to and no one else has to follow. I really like the definition that nothing is allowed to be added or removed from the paper, so you should be able to unfold the paper and be left with your start sheet with just the complete crease pattern on it.

So coming back to the original question to glue or not to glue, for me it would be a definite not.
This however is only my personal opinion and many great Origami masters like for example Brian Chan and Satoshi Kamiya use quite a lot of glue just to make their models more stable, even though it would be possible to fold them without glue as well.
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ginshun
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by ginshun »

Using glue or MC at the end is really all about the specific model an how you want the model to look / stay looking.

If you are not using tissue foil, certain models will never hold a nice shape.

The "Lady" by Nguyen Nguyen Thong that I just folded is a good example. As seen in my gallery, there was some clipping and brushing on of MC done at the end to get it to hold its shape. Without using MC or inserting some kind of wires in the arms, I don't know how you would ever get them to hold the shape so that they are held in front of the model's waist / chest. The model looked good after only folding, but without finishing with MC I don't think it would be possible to get the final look quite right.

It is still personal preference though. Maybe to some the model would be more appealing in not this specific pose / shape, but knowing that MC / glue / wire was NOT used to finish. To each their own.
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by dragon »

I do agree that the definition of origami has narrowed too much (ofc I have no first hand experience of how it used to be, being very young myself), like if people want to have a cut here and there, who's to tell them that that's not real origami? There's no point in policing art like that.
I'm also one to indiscriminately cover the whole model in MC after folding it because it just makes it feel so much more solid! So nice to the touch :3.

So as long as people don't go policing origami, saying what counts as it and what doesn't, and instead just do that for their own models, keeping it personal, i'm fine with it.
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