To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

General discussion about Origami, Papers, Diagramming, ...
Scoopey
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To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Scoopey »

The question I pose on this topic came to light after I saw a comment on a youtube tutorial.

I just wonder where opinions lie on the matter.
You fold a model and complete it..but then go back and glue some of the folds shut either to stop it splaying out over time or make this appendages neater.

As far as I'm concerned I thinks this OK because you have proved you can fold the model and just want to show it at its best, as opposed to using glue on the paper where the outcome would originally have been impossible.

Instances of these include insects where multiple layers cause the legs to open up on this case of some beetles the entire legs section is tryign to jump out of the body above it, no matter how neatly you fold it.

Your thoughts here (and I'm sure there will be some controversy)

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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Froy »

I can almost hear the purist raging.

But, ever took a look to Kamiya's World of super complex origami? In some cases you MUST use glue (you can't finish the ryujin 3.5 without some glue). Or if you are a purist, design models that lock by them selves. The work of Joseph Wu is an example.

And purist need to face the fact that adding MC or Wet folding is not purism at all.
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Scoopey
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Scoopey »

I was thinking that wet folding would upset the purist...
The weird thing is when you look at the history of Origami, at one time it was considered OK to cut which now has a different name "Kirigami" to differenciate.

Also foil backed paper could be considered anti purist...you have to glue the foil to the paper!
bethnor
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by bethnor »

glue. next question.
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Froy »

Be aware that kirigami and origami that uses some cuts are very different technics
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dragon
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by dragon »

I use MC to "glue" loose paper closed when I'm shaping. It's basically just wet folding, but does that count as gluing?
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by dinogami »

Here's how I tend to think about this issue: there's a difference between taking advantage of the inherent, existing qualities of a piece of folding material--regardless of whether those were instilled at the manufacturer's end or immediately before folding (e.g., preparing a piece of paper with MC, or making tissue foil)--and adding a new substance after the folding process. Personally, I wouldn't say that wet-folding a model, and reactivating something inherent in the paper in order to take advantage of its properties, isn't purist...certainly not in the same vein as cutting might be considered "impure." Note that I am not saying the one is purist and one is not, or that one is bad and the other good! I've done both--I've added MC to a model to strengthen/stiffen an appendage after I've folded the model, or to make some shaping permanent, and on rare occasions adhere some internal layers together to prevent splaying. Sure, I'd love if there was some idealized kind of paper that folded perfectly, even when several layers thick, and shaped perfectly and never splayed, but any kind of paper will have its own limitations. As models have become more complex and detailed, paper nears or hits those limits, which may not have ever been the case in the "purist" days, so we've adapted to mitigate those limitations with MC, glues, foils, or what have you.
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by arvivlx2 »

dragon wrote:I use MC to "glue" loose paper closed when I'm shaping. It's basically just wet folding, but does that count as gluing?
MC with water is really a glue, not "glue".. I count that as gluing
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ginshun
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by ginshun »

The whole thing about having to be made from one square with no cuts, "purism" movement, is a relatively new think to origami - having become prevalent only in the last 15 or 20 years. It just rules that somebody made up and other people ran with. It really has nothing to do with origami historically speaking.

That said, there is something pretty satisfying in starting with a square, only folding it and ending up with a dragon or centipede or a wizard with a staff - anything that looks not possible with a single piece of paper. Any rules followed are self imposed though. Anybody who looks down on somebody else's folds or designs because they start with a rectangle, or because they use MC to hold the flaps together on the model that is box pleated on a grid of 48 (or whatever) is a huge douche anyway, if you ask me.

Do whatever it takes to make the model pleasing to yourself. Don't worry about staying "pure" or what others think.
Scoopey
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Scoopey »

I was just curious to what people think. Like most hobbies there does seem to be a paramilitary wing which leaps up and declares "That is all wrong."
Personally I started to use glue on finished models as insects began look like they had an "alien" trying to explode them from the inside out and dinosaurs don;t tend to look magnificent when they start doing the splits!
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by roodborst »

My rules are that is must be folded from a single square, no cuts and the glue should only be used too keep it shape. Wire is fine too. Maybe it is me but I think that folding from anything other than a square, using cuts, or glueing pieces of paper on the model takes away some of the magic of origami. The beauty is the limitations. The fun is figuring out how too achieve a model with only a square. For example: I was trying to design a goat. That means 4 legs, 2 horns, 2 ears, 1 tail, 2 flaps for the head. I got a bunch of options.
1: use a piece of paper for each flap and glue it all together.
2: use a rectangle or other shape of paper to make it easier to get all the flaps.
3: use a square and puzzle out all the flaps from there.
All three models shall eventually get me a nice looking goat model. But options 1 and 2 shall feel like cheating to me. Number 3 will bring me the most satisfaction.
Hope this makes sense.
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origami_8
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by origami_8 »

ginshun wrote:The whole thing about having to be made from one square with no cuts, "purism" movement, is a relatively new think to origami - having become prevalent only in the last 15 or 20 years.
Make it 50. I'm folding for a good 30 years now and I can assure you that it was already a thing when I started with Origami in my childhood.
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chesscuber98
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by chesscuber98 »

I really like Michael LaFosse's definition. Its Origami as long as the process of sculpting the sheet of paper is metamorphic in nature. Adding glue is not an additive process so to say, it simply aids the metamorphosis. But if the same glue is used to stick different sheets together(i.e. the paper no longer remains a square) then it will not be true to Origami.
Scoopey
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by Scoopey »

That's an interesting statement., Whilst I will do modular origami with fancy paper locks I tend to avoid models such as dinosaurs where the top is glued to the bottom and would ordinarily fall off without it. I personally feel if glue is used to merely neaten up the end result and helps for longevity then you haven't really cheated. I did not in one of Michael LaFosse's books he suggested putting in rolled up and flattened foil to make legs rigid.

As for square only paper - Not quite sure where I stand on that one as you could make a rectangle by folding in the edges...it would be awkward to fold afterwards mind! Square only would also rule out dollar bill origami and there are some fantastic (read Won Park) designs out there...
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chesscuber98
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Re: To glue or not to glue..that is the question.

Post by chesscuber98 »

Ah, i am misinterpreted. what i meant by 'the paper no longer remains a square', was that if one started with a square sheet of paper, the paper should remain square till the end product.(when unfolded)
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