Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

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Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Soccer1235 » January 14th, 2017, 1:57 am

First post on the forum!
I was planning on making Kawasaki roses and selling them but not for profit; instead, every cent would go to a charity. Would I have to ask Toshikazu Kawasaki for permission first, and how would I contact him?
Thanks
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Gerardo » January 16th, 2017, 9:33 pm

Hi Soccer1235!

Each country has different legislations on the matter. Now, I like to base my answers in the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (as amended on September 28, 1979). Many many countries are part of that convention, and in that sense, their respective copyright laws are basically based on it.

So after doing a skim of the document, I believe that the treatise doesn't mention allowing the sale of copies of a copyright-protected work for charity reasons without the authorization of the copyright-holder.

If you wish, you can ask about the subject to Origami Authors and Creators OAC, which is a group that defends origamists' creative rights. You can also contact Mr. Kawasaki through the group. Follow the link to find their home page, from there you can find the contact page.

Actually, OAC helped me get Mr. Kawasaki's authorization in the past in order to use this logo which includes a variation of one of his roses.

By the way, I have an idea like yours for the future but regarding models by Kunihiko Kasahara. When the day comes I wish to ask for his authorization. If I don't get it, I had thought about giving the charity my folds so they could hand them out as gifts to their donators.

Congratulations for your beautiful project :D!
Last edited by Gerardo on January 20th, 2017, 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Soccer1235 » January 18th, 2017, 2:50 am

Thank you! I sent an email and hopefully I will be able to proceed with the project.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Forum_Lurker » January 19th, 2017, 3:22 am

Question: aside from "its polite", why would you need permission from the designer, even if you're selling the origami for your own profit?

Its your paper, your time you've invested in folding, you negotiating with the buyer etc. If Grandma knits a jumper based on a design she found in a book, and decide to sell the said jumper, far as I'm aware she is not required to obtain any permission from the author, why is origami different?

(Admittedly, i have never tried, or intend to try, selling origami or knitted jumpers, and there MIGHT be actual legal requirements before you can sell either one.)
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Baltorigamist » January 19th, 2017, 8:04 pm

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe origami designs count as the intellectual property of the creator and therefore the would-be seller would need permission to gain any kind of money from it--profit or not. I wouldn't sell it without permission if I were you.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby mkosmul » January 19th, 2017, 9:48 pm

Forum_Lurker wrote:Question: aside from "its polite", why would you need permission from the designer, even if you're selling the origami for your own profit?

Its your paper, your time you've invested in folding, you negotiating with the buyer etc.


Basically, for the same reasons why you can’t buy a movie on DVD and then burn copies on your own blank DVDs and sell them. Without the contents (the movie), which someone else put their time and effort into, your blank DVDs would basically be worth... as much as blank DVDs. Likewise, without the origami design, the value of your paper would be just the value of paper. Design is an essential part of the finished product, and here design comes not from you but from someone else.

Of course, the topic of what kind of protection, to what extent, for how long, etc. movies / designs need is a topic heavily debated (and rightly so), but the basic premise that you can’t just take someone's idea and treat it as your own without any limitations is in my opinion very sound.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby bethnor » January 20th, 2017, 7:33 am

believe it or not, this topic has been discussed to death on these forums, with all the same back and forths.

it's odd to hear that kawasaki is strict about copyright. the rose is probably the most sold model on the interwebs.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Gerardo » January 20th, 2017, 3:50 pm

Soccer1235 wrote:Thank you! I sent an email and hopefully I will be able to proceed with the project.

That's great news! Hope you get the authorization :D.


Baltorigamist wrote:...I believe origami designs count as the intellectual property of the creator and therefore the would-be seller would need permission to gain any kind of money from it...

mkosmul wrote:...you can’t buy a movie on DVD and then burn copies on your own blank DVDs and sell them. Without the contents (the movie), which someone else put their time and effort into, your blank DVDs would basically be worth... as much as blank DVDs. Likewise, without the origami design, the value of your paper would be just the value of paper. Design is an essential part of the finished product, and here design comes not from you but from someone else...

Excellent explanations guys ;).


bethnor wrote:believe it or not, this topic has been discussed to death on these forums, with all the same back and forths.

Very true!


Forum_Lurker wrote:If Grandma knits a jumper based on a design she found in a book, and decide to sell the said jumper, far as I'm aware she is not required to obtain any permission from the author...

In some countries clothing is copyright-protected and in some others is isn't. In the UK it is; take a look at this quote:
ROWAN: Knitting & Crochet. No. 52 wrote: The designs in this magazine are copyrighted and must not be knitted for re-sale. Reproduction of this publication is protected by copyright and is sold on the condition that it [is] used for non-commercial purposes.

The source is pg. 4 of this online issue: http://www.knitrowan.com/files/DIGI_MAG_52_FULL_LR.pdf
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Soccer1235 » January 26th, 2017, 10:44 pm

I got permission! Thank you for all the help.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Gerardo » January 26th, 2017, 11:38 pm

Excellent :D!

I'd love to know more about your project if you wish to tell us. Please, let us also know how it's going once you start selling the folds and donating the money :).
Last edited by Gerardo on February 2nd, 2017, 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby steingar » February 1st, 2017, 11:45 pm

As someone else pointed out, copyright laws vary from nation to nation, thus one would need to check one's local statues.
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Re: Non-profit selling Kawasaki Rose

Postby Gerardo » February 3rd, 2017, 2:38 am

Very true steingar :). And also check the laws from the other parties implied, for example of the creator of the model.

This is a very good article about the intrincacies of international copyright disputes: https://moz.com/blog/international-copy ... pply-them-
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