Restraining visual mediums?

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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby roodborst » July 18th, 2017, 10:49 am

Check out madfolder's works. That are a kind of surrealistic animals. And melina hermsen who wraps paper around dolls and let it dry and works origami around it. Some works of sebastien limet. All on flickr. But pure surreal, as in random shapes and colors has never been done in origami. At least I gave not seen it. Although maybe tessalation might fit the discription.

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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby Gerardo » July 20th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Thanks roodborst. I knew some of their work but I checked out other ones by them due to your post. Amazing stuff! I assume that many of their works did originally pop out from their heads instead of being attempts to replicate things they had seen, which is what I'm talking about, but isn't the work from this three origamists more like the exception rather than the rule in the origami community? What do you guys think? Anyone can chip in :).

PS: I'd say random shapes and colors have more to do with abstract art while surrealist paintings are, for example, about impossible landscapes where many of their subjects are weird mixes of many elements of the known world. You can check out Salvador Dali's to get an idea.
Last edited by Gerardo on July 25th, 2017, 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby roodborst » July 21st, 2017, 10:33 am

I agree they are the exceptions. Most people replicate what they see. Someone actually did one of those elephants of Dali in origami.

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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby roodborst » July 21st, 2017, 10:38 am

Now that reread your post.
Most artist draw or paint what they see aswell. Dali is the exception. But I think the origami community is so much smaller. So there are less "Dali" type designers.

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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby HankSimon » July 21st, 2017, 2:19 pm

I propose 6 examples [there are many others] of breaking through the skill ceiling, and one or two that may be at the Dali level or more:

Akira Yoshizawa - Grandfather of Modern Origami and wetfolding - persistence pays off, and he helped create a method to document his progress [origami diagrams] to learn from his folding.
Robert Lang - Applied mathematical rigor to origami design for increasingly intricate capability.
Quentin Trollip - Created his own style, evolving from a folder to a recognized artist.
Michael LaFosse - Trained under the masters, and developed his own style, improving wetfolding.
Eric Joisel - Professional artist who brought his skills to origami.
Giang Dinh - Created an different path of beautiful, organic wetfolding designs.

This is a very limited set of 6 Origami artists, who developed their own styles and paths, expanding and adding to the Artistry of Origami. There are others who have done the same. But, I believe that you can go back and see old and newer models that document how they persisted and broke out of their skill ceiling to expand the boundaries or Origami.

An anecdote [in ODS?] about Robert Lang is that he met with Yoshizawa, and Yoshizawa mentioned how he worked for 25 years to perfect a model. Lang didn't see why that much time was needed. ... Then, during his Origami career, Lang looked through his notes and realized that he tweaked and fine tuned a model for 25 years before he was satisfied. So, a certain level of perfectionism may help you to improve your skill. With these 6 gentlemen, I'd believe that their perfectionism was an enjoyable pursuit, rather than a painful obsession.
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby Gerardo » July 25th, 2017, 9:22 pm

roodborst wrote:Most artist draw or paint what they see aswell. Dali is the exception. But I think the origami community is so much smaller. So there are less "Dali" type designers.

That's an excellent point, I had not thought about it like that.

HankSimon wrote:I propose 6 examples [there are many others] of breaking through the skill ceiling, and one or two that may be at the Dali level or more...

I know what you mean, they were revolutionary regarding their origami works. Now I'd say that what NeverCeaseToCrease meant with "skill ceiling" is something very different. He meant that each person has a limit regarding their potential ability in a particular skill or task. People would have a different level of potential skill on origami, or anything else for that matter, and they won't be able to surpass it no matter how hard they try. That's what I understood :).

HankSimon, does your answer somehow relate to my question about if origami tends to ambiguety?

Gerardo wrote:(First of all, I couldn't make up my mind if this thread should be here or in the "General Origami Talk" subforum. If I actually posted it in the wrong subforum could a moderator please move it to the right place... so sorry)

Baltotigamist or origami_8, this definitely has too much to do with origami. Would you please move the thread to the "General Origami Talk" subforum?
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby HankSimon » July 25th, 2017, 11:05 pm

I don't think I was addressing ambiguity ;-)

But, I do believe that there are skill plateaus, that may be mistaken for ceilings, b/c it takes a different/new way of thinking to surpass the plateau.
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby NeverCeaseToCrease » July 25th, 2017, 11:58 pm

Yes, you're right, I think I meant a skill plateau.
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby Gerardo » August 7th, 2017, 3:59 am

This model of mine is an example of what I was talking about.

Image

I created it for the July monthly creation challenge which theme was "other forms of art". With it I tried to represent an original idea instead of recreating a preexisting object.

This was what the judge said about the model:

Gerardo: It looks like a traditional crane being sculpted out of a marble block, but I'm not sure without a description of the model...
(I added the bold letters)

To what can we attribute that uncertainty in this case? I think this can be a good example that can helps us understand what I've been talking about.
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby Splunge » August 7th, 2017, 6:15 am

Gerardo wrote:To what can we attribute that uncertainty in this case?

I think that the uncertainty in this case is primarily caused by the photo that you've posted. It's too dark and doesn't show the complete model.
I also had the impression that it's a crane from a marble block, but due to the picture I wasn't completely sure.
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby Gerardo » August 8th, 2017, 4:32 am

I had not seen it that way. Here's a picture of the model with light:

Image

Does it make a difference?

I had taken this picture first, but then I decided it would look better witha black background and I did prefer it.
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Re: Restraining visual mediums?

Postby NeverCeaseToCrease » September 6th, 2017, 1:02 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0AJmdNwTsM

I would like you all to watch this video, if you haven't already.
Obviously, origami is not a restraining visual medium, otherwise, how would he have known that it was a pigeon and not a dove? Or a robin? Or a blue jay? Unless... it was staged... :shock:

Another thing, if instead of a pigeon she had given him Robert J Lang's scorpion hp. http://www.langorigami.com/crease-pattern/scorpion-hp-opus-541
He would have immediately known that there were 8 medium length flaps, a long combed flap, and two forked flaps: it must be a scorpion, nothing else.

Anyways not really sure what I'm trying to say here, just thought you might want to see the video. What do you all think?



By the way if you were wondering, he was eliminated that round.
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