Help Me become an Expert ?

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Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby thangtamfive » July 13th, 2017, 5:14 pm

I'm not an Expert at Maths or understanding much about ( Circle-packing & Box-pleating ) but in the last few months and Years I would have used them in some models I have done but still ---- Instead of telling me about books that have to much information on about such things like ( Circle-packing and Box-pleating ) could someone please just let me know certain and specific things about ( Circle-packing and Box-pleating )

I want to know how a Origami Artist looks at something either it been a insect or bird or warrior or human form or anything like that.

I mean how do Origami Artists work out how to put Things they see in the real world or on tv on the internet how do they work out how to put a crease pattern of it on paper
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Re: Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby Baltorigamist » July 13th, 2017, 8:02 pm

There are numerous topics on design, but unfortunately, the best information you'll get is in Origami Design Secrets (2nd Edition) by Robert Lang. It's expensive, but it's definitely worth the money.

As far as the basics you mentioned, I design a model by looking at the placement of each appendage on the subject. Then I assign a flap location to each appendage and work out the CP using either box-pleating or 22.5deg technique from there. Color-changing is a whole different animal (no pun intended), however, and the best way to learn that is to experiment by yourself.

Design is largely trial-and-error--just keep that in mind.
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Re: Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby NeverCeaseToCrease » July 13th, 2017, 8:19 pm

First, Welcome to the forum, thangtamfive!
Baltorigamist is right, ODS 2 is the best book you'll find, and the design process is mostly trial and error.

If you want a summary of the 700 page book, it works like this:
There are two ways, circle packing, and box pleating. Circle packing allows bigger models from smaller paper, but are extremely hard to fold and design. You can use Robert Lang's software TreeMaker to design it for you(just draw a stick figure with approximate proportions), and his other software ReferenceFinder to help you fold the CP TreeMaker made. Or you can do the calculus equations he wrote in the back of ODS 1. Here is an image that demonstrates how artists would turn a stick figure into a cp themselves:
http://pre08.deviantart.net/5a11/th/pre ... 4vpa7h.png

The other way is with box pleating. Box pleating has vertecies only on grid points, and has an end result of thicker flaps but is far easier to fold. Furthermore, box pleating has more advanced teqniques, such as level shifting, color changing, and combs. Here is a box pleated cp without any extra bells and whistles: http://theiff.org/images/lang/folder_crab.jpg

Basically, the only way to become an expert is either trial and error for a few long and hard years, or read the book.
Gallery of my own designs with some CPs: http://snkhan.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14078
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Re: Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby roodborst » July 16th, 2017, 11:33 am

The book is pretty hard too read too be honest and very technical. If you want to get better fold alot of intermediate models. You will be able too recognize certain bases and uses of different shapes of flaps. Then pick model you like start adding a graft and fold the model. See what kind of difference it makes. Or change reference point early in the model and finish it the same way using the diagram. You'll notice that small changes in ref points lead too things like smaller legs but more paper for the head section. Joisels rat model is great for this. Or some of lionel albertino' s models in safari origami like the hyena. Variations on roman diaz's goat. Just pick models that are not too complex and use a nice base. This mostly for 22.5 design. I do not know alot about boxpleating. It seems more calculation based. Still, it comes down too practising alot. Nobody here just picked up a piece of paper and folded what they wanted. We all asked the same question. I know I did.

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Re: Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby NeverCeaseToCrease » July 16th, 2017, 6:20 pm

You can also watch Robert J Lang's 15 minute ted talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_lang_f ... ew_origami

He also goes around the country giving lectures if you want to go see it. There's going to be one in SF soon
Gallery of my own designs with some CPs: http://snkhan.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14078
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Re: Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby Brimstone » July 16th, 2017, 6:52 pm

There is an approach that I don't like much, it's not considered very techinical but still many people take advantage of it and produce good results.

Find a base that serves your needs as for the number of flaps you need for the final model and then hide paper and shape like crazy.

The blintzed bird base produces 8 flaps of the same size and there are many models you can do with it. Then you learn how to add grafts and you can create hundreds of models (I know someone who has).
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Re: Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby Ponadr » July 26th, 2017, 8:05 am

thangtamfive wrote:I'm not an Expert at Maths or understanding much about ( Circle-packing & Box-pleating ) but in the last few months and Years I would have used them in some models I have done but still ---- Instead of telling me about books that have to much information on about such things like ( Circle-packing and Box-pleating ) could someone please just let me know certain and specific things about ( Circle-packing and Box-pleating )

If you want to be an expert, don't copy. You have to find your own style and methods of folding and designing. This means you have to take the time to sit down with a piece of paper and just fold. If you observe the works of great origamists like Satoshi Kamiya, Robert Lang, Hideo Komatsu, Shuki Kato, Eric Joisel, Tomoko Fuse, etc, you can see that each origamist has their own style. From my experience, Robert Lang's design concepts just barely scratch the surface of what's possible, so don't rely on his ODS book. I'm not saying you shouldn't read it—you should— but just keep it in mind that there are so many more design concepts to discover.

thangtamfive wrote:I want to know how a Origami Artist looks at something either it been a insect or bird or warrior or human form or anything like that.

First, when I want to design an animal, I make sure I have a reason for picking that animal. Am I legitimately interested in the animal or am I just picking that because it looks complex? Do I appreciate it and do I feel a connection to it? If it passes all those tests, then I go to google images and look at hundreds of pictures of the animal. Then, I go to youtube and watch videos until I feel like I have a good understanding of EVERY detail of the animal. Then, I search it up and read about the animal on wikipedia, etc. After all that, I select a few photos on google images and use them as a guide to start getting ideas of folding possibilities. Throughout the design process, I always have photos or drawings in front of me.

thangtamfive wrote:I mean how do Origami Artists work out how to put Things they see in the real world or on tv on the internet how do they work out how to put a crease pattern of it on paper

If you're in it just for fame or whatever, you might as well not start. Otherwise, to get your origami to spread around, you need to make sure your art brings value to the community. That usually means you need to diagram at least a few of your models. Upload your work to communities like snkhan, youtube, flickr, your own website, etc. Most of all, design really great work. As for making crease patterns, I use inkscape, but do research to find out what is best for you.

Lastly, don't give yourself unreasonable expectations or you will feel bad when you don't achieve them. Be creative and don't be afraid to learn new things.
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Re: Help Me become an Expert ?

Postby HankSimon » July 26th, 2017, 11:30 am

Go back to some of the earlier models, designed by other people and fold these models. You might try fold 5 or 10 models by each person. The models may not be complicated or advanced, at first. What you are looking for to is understand Why they chose to use one approach or another in their model. In the early days, [around the 1960s ;-) ] designers had to select 'concrete' folds such a pleat or a sink to produce a leg or a flap. Now they can do abstract design. But, many artists go and copy the Masters, before they go on to create using more abstract design grammars. Whichever way you do this, by copying to see the results or by reading in a book, or by attending seminars at conference, it is a LOT of work, and takes years of patience.
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