Origami community in decline?

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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby steingar » August 17th, 2017, 3:01 pm

First, my comment was directed at the declination of activity on this site and other older platforms. I doubt fewer people are folding, but they're sharing through alternative avenues.

I agree that simple models are the way to get people into Origami. The problem is what is needed are simple models that are sufficiently clever that they give what I call value added. These are fewer in number than you can imagine.

New books of previously simple models are certainly not needed. Publications of the sort of models I outlined are always in need. They are devilishly difficult to write, though. Really clever but utterly simple models are the hardest to design.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby greencube07 » August 19th, 2017, 3:33 am

Though there's a lot of books that contain simple models, it's too simple or maybe too much commercially-made I should say? Those book doesn't really contain that much 'good models' but rather bunch of 'bad models', only made and diagram-drawn,sold for commercial purpose. I started off origami with books that contain simple models but ones with the really good ones like Kawahata's book series. I do agree on making books for beginners but the book should definitely contain some things like that.
And yeah, most youtube users would get permission for copyrights of the original model. But there still are people like him who don't and get such permission. And even someone like you would say 'whatever' and don't care about that. If that was your model, would you still not care? This kind of indifference and apathy is letting designers get the worse condition out of making copyright books or diagrams :(

And back to the topic, the topic says it declining, and I do think activities on this forum is definitely declining over past few years. But in Japan the activity is actually same as before or may have grown even larger. They usually use twitter and I've seen a lot of improvement over that. And on recently visit on tanteidan convention, I've seen a lot people still folding. It may be only this forum that's declining..?
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby NeverCeaseToCrease » August 19th, 2017, 6:33 am

I know i'm getting a little off topic...
But I think indifferent is not the way I feel about the permission issues. I simply think that it's obvious no amount of private messaging will change his/her mind, so there is nothing else we should do. And you're right, if it were my model, I would care, but it's obvious the creators of the models he/she is using don't mind or otherwise they'd have already notified youtube to remove the videos. Which brings me to my next argument: we aren't all knowing, how do we know that he/she hasn't gotten permission from the authors privately? We don't have all the facts and we aren't the police, so it shouldn't be our job to crack down on copyright.

And also, we haven't really discussed the pros and cons of having a declining origami forum. For instance, it could be good because it makes us more unique, but it could be bad because we have less people to get help from or collaborate with.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby roodborst » August 19th, 2017, 10:33 am

I have not been here in the early days when al the legends used this forum alot, but I imagine in those days it was the first time all these people could get together and share ideas. So back then it was used alot more. Nowadays it is mostly new people with questions about origami, but those are always the same questions. Questions I had when I started and why I use this forum like; stuck on step 6, what paper too use, how to make double tissue, how too become the greatest designer after a night sleep etc. Nothing wrong with that, but I can see why answering the same questions again and again has made people use the forum less. Also I can post pictures on flickr in seconds from my mobile. And I have too use my laptop too add too my gallery here on the forum. Most people here on the forum I'm following on flickr so there is little reason too check the forum for galleries. Then I have too kids now, 6 months and years so I have little time. And with designing I have too take the next step, learning cp's, learning too design without just testfolding 30 times. All reasons for me too fold less and share on the forum less. But I still check it daily for interesting discussions like this one. So I think there are 2 groups. Newbies looking for answers, and advanced folders looking for interresting topics and the challenges. I think the gallery is loosing its appeal. Also, the forum is no longer the only source for information, you can dowload books and look at videos. You did not have this a couple of years ago.

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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby greencube07 » August 19th, 2017, 1:27 pm

I also do know that this has gone off-topic, but since we are at it, ending the talk under this topic wouldn't be that bad.(After all, it's till a bit related to the original topic)
Yes, you're right. Not all individual can know whether that's legal or not since information related to that won't be told to them directly unless they search for those.
But that doesn't make individual's trial to make complaint upon the illegal action worthless as you say. If your arugment is right why do you think people bother to take their time to send individual complaints to the government? If individual votes are useless and worthless, why do people bother to go on a vote? Whether that has a influence at the end or not doesn't matter, the action that one of each single individual makes out to make things right shouldn't be ignored or be dismissed. If you think such justice are of no value so people shouldn't even try to do at all, that 'is' a sort of apathy upon the whole thing.
If we are not the original author or police, we shouldn't be arguing about the copyright problem? That's nonsense to me. Though this kind of action would be much of intervention over 'their' problem, it's still worth the words.
(and you said if that was the problem, original desiner would have already talked about it. Yes, they did. It's been months after the problem arose so I don't perfectly remember the whole scene, but there sure was case(s) that original designer gave complaint on his youtube video. The problem solving didn't really work out well, since the designer didn't know much about copyright laws referring to how the original designer should act to such person who doesn't show much of his identity-i.e name, nationality etc. and after all, the uploader deleted the comment.I still seldom see coment on his videos referring to copyright problems, but every time he deletes them.. of course, this doesn't mean that it's 'whatever' as you say. I still see this as a problematic one and those struggling hard to help out copyright holders to resolve this as a good deed - not worthless.)

And back to where I started, I brought ot 'him' as a example to explain since his video has been influential on bringing new people to origami. The video quality is good and selection of the models goes same as well. But though that helps the origami community to rise up again, the point that he doesn't go off with legal way can't be overlooked, so I don't really think youtube method is a fine way to make development of the community(of course there are a lot of good people on youtube, but still, books are in my opinion, better for the solution.)
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby Ponadr » August 20th, 2017, 1:20 am

Funny thing is that when I started this thread I was actually thinking of creating another one on the copyright problem, but it looks like you guys have started talking about it already. I'll still start the new thread though, so we can keep this on the same topic and go in depth on the copyright issue.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby Kundalini » August 22nd, 2017, 12:04 pm

Ponadr wrote:Is it just me or has the origami community become less active and populated than it used to be a few years ago? It seems to me that there are less active members and less posts, especially when you look at the monthly origami challenges. There is also an overall decline in participation at my local origami group.

I'm guessing the problem here is that there is less interest from the community due to not enough new, exciting publishing origamists and a general decline from the older professional origamists? What do you guys think?
Maybe others like me, are starting to living alone. My apartment is a mess so I am lack of time because i am cleaning aand cooking to much hahaha and i am thinking when i could fold again.

I am not an active member, but still i think in origami and fold to gift to someone.

i was one year without folding, but two weeks ago i am fighting with a old design that is near to end if i can find a eficient solution with and arm of a human designImage

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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby steingar » August 22nd, 2017, 5:13 pm

Funny, I never folded as much a when I lived alone in a small apartment. Didn't have to spend time doing yard work or auto repair (didn't have either) and cooking has never been that difficult. I hadn't television (my pal called my place a "media free zone") and spent my free time folding or reading. Of course, there were no screens to goof off on in those days.

Want to fold more? Leave the TV off and keep away from the other screens. They're mostly a waste of time. Stay away from them and you'll be a much more involved and productive human being.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby phillipcurl » August 29th, 2017, 10:37 pm

I used to be a very active member in the origami community, but life has sucked away all the time that I had for folding and contributing to community. I'm getting back to where I'm gonna have more time to participate in the community again though, luckily. Logging into this forum for the first time in a few months, I was surprised as well at the decline in posts on here and on flickr. Quite interesting reading this and seeing the reasons people think this is happening.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby bethnor » August 30th, 2017, 5:54 am

welcome back phillip.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby anonymous person » September 6th, 2017, 6:11 pm

The decline of the (online) origami community is a self perpetuating cycle. As active members leave, those who remain feel less inclined to participate as the quality and quantity of discussion declines, and so on. That goes some way to explaining the attrition suffered since 2011.

At the same time, new folders increasingly find their way into origami via Youtube. Being taught by videos, they are averse to buying books or learning how to read diagrams. Hence there is no increase in people who are seriously interested in origami as an art. It is difficult to compete with the instant gratification provided by videos.

To add to this, it would go a long way if all of us who are still active made a conscious effort to reinvigorate discussion. I would suggest commenting on each other's pictures, responding to threads, posting your own questions, to bring back the quality of discussion.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby roodborst » September 6th, 2017, 9:44 pm

I do think that alot of people start with the youtube en when they get better go in search of diagrams and books. I myself prefer diagrams over youtube. Clicking, pausing, rewinding. It is the reason why I started learning folding from diagrams.

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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby NeverCeaseToCrease » September 6th, 2017, 11:53 pm

I feel like this "decline" was just a dip. Maybe it was this post or maybe something else, but it seems like the community is becoming more active again.
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby oz » September 7th, 2017, 6:54 am

anonymous person wrote:At the same time, new folders increasingly find their way into origami via Youtube. Being taught by videos, they are averse to buying books or learning how to read diagrams. Hence there is no increase in people who are seriously interested in origami as an art. It is difficult to compete with the instant gratification provided by videos.


I've never thought of that before, that is very insightful. I started origami before YouTube even existed, so I actually have trouble folding from YouTube videos, as I usually don't find them as clear as diagrams. I can see how someone starting with the videos would prefer them though. That's something I've not thought of before.

I wouldn't quite worry about the state of the forum. It's always been a slow forum (which I greatly appreciate; I'm not a fan of sorting through a thousand posts a day). The new generation always brings a spark of creativity with it, and the more advanced/technical discussions still happen, often sparked by the challenge of the month. I believe there are still a lot of users who lurk (like me); all it takes is a good conversation point to bring them out. :)

Time to resume lurking... 8)
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Re: Origami community in decline?

Postby anonymous person » September 7th, 2017, 8:06 am

NeverCeaseToCrease wrote:I feel like this "decline" was just a dip. Maybe it was this post or maybe something else, but it seems like the community is becoming more active again.


I really hope so, although at this rate it will be a long time until we reach the same level of activity as there was around 2011.
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