Scaled Koi project and wet folding

[mwu]

I have been a folder since I was a kid, and have folded many of the more technical designs you can find in the lang and montroll books. I have always wanted to design, but never really got exposed to the methods used to design. I recently bought Robert Lang's book, and have been reading through it. I decided to fold the scaled koi when I got to that part as a good exercise to get working experience with the ideas he had described so far.

Up until now I have not been exposed to many things such as paper choice (for anything larger than what you could find in a craft store specifically marked as origami paper), wet folding, etc. However, through these forums, I have been reading about many of those very things.

Having learned that Lang wet folds most of his models, and having seen a picture of a scaled koi that was not wet folded (the fold down the dorsal edge of the koi didn't stay shut in the picture), I think I would like to wet fold my koi.

Obviously, I would want to practice some wet folding before attempting it on the koi, but I have some other questions as well:

If I am using paper that wasn't made with a water soluble cellulose, I need to size it -- Lang suggests sizing paper before cutting it so that the final paper shape is still square after sizing. Is it that big of a deal? ie -- if I have paper I have already cut and begun prefolding, would it totally f it up to size it after finishing the prefolds?

Lang also states that once you wet the paper, the folding (at least to the base) should be done in one sitting -- keeping the paper wet enough as you fold. It takes me much more than one sitting to do the prefolds for all of the scales... should I prefold all of the scales and then wet the paper, wet folding the scales and then the koi? or perhaps would it be better to postpone wet folding until after folding all of the scales and then only wet fold from there to the finished koi?

[M Deutsch]

My suggestion would be to fold all the scales and form them, then wet the paper and fold the Koi.

Make sure you practice wet folding the koi without scales too! Perhaps even commit the steps to memory so that you can wetfold it without consulting the diagrams.

Also, as far as sizing goes, I'm not sure it is that hugely important. It really depends on your paper choice!

Good Luck!

[Jonnycakes]

It won't affect the model too much if you size it now. I once cut paper to square, then sized it, and they were still usable pieces of paper. The paper might be slightly off after sizing, but it shouldn't be a big deal. Also, as M Deutsch suggested, you should fold the scales first, then wet-fold. It might be a good idea to wet the scales and flatten the model a bit before going onto the koi if it doesn't want to lie flat.

[origamimasterjared]

I always cut paper to square before wetting (if I wet at all). For one thing, it's a lot easier to actually get a good square. It's also much easier to fold.

Wet-folding has evolved. Rather than start with a damp square and fold through an entire sequence, for complex work it is often better to fold dry until a point, and then wet it.

If you are using thick paper you have to start wet. If you use thin paper, you can fold dry and then wet towards the end if necessary.

I haven't folded the scaled koi, though I've folded a bunch of the koi on its own. It was one of the first designs Robert taught me directly. I would recommend at least folding the scales dry. When you get the paper damp, it will have a tendency to come undone, and you don't want that when folding hundreds of scales.

So here are the steps:

• 1. Make a methyl-cellulose solution. Let sit overnight.
  2. Cut a square of good thin paper. What kind of paper are you using? Unryu, or homemade double MC tissue paper should be fine.
  3. Apply MC to the paper. Let dry.
  4. Fold the scales.
  5. Fold the koi. Wet it if you want.
  6. Take photos and post them.

[mwu]

About the paper... I actually started looking for and purchased paper for the koi before I got to this forum and read about the various papers and methods of making them.

I first started with a 30"x30" cut from some packaging paper (the kind you would wrap a package in before sending through snail mail), but that proved to be fairly thick and difficult to work with (lots of spidering of the creases) ... now that I've read more about papers, I can assume it's a wood pulp with fairly short fibers... combined with the paper being thick, it was not a good fit.

I am now using a roll of what's called "dual surface project paper" (also cut 30x30 even though I could have gone up to 36x36 -- didn't want to recalculate all the scaling and adding of the grafts I did to get from the book's CP to the measurements I'm using). I got the paper from Staples at the same time I got the packaging paper. It's described as "smooth side for felt-tip markers & fingerpaint, rough side for pastels, wet chalk & liquid paints." That might mean that it's using a non-water soluble binding... On the other hand, it's much thinner, and the folds are much sharper. I did make the mistake of folding the first row of scales completely before prefolding all of them and only after all the pleats were in did I realize I can't prefold the rest because of the pleats. So I unfolded the scales and added the prefolds, but by the time I came back to folding the scales, the first row wouldn't hold. I have an idea -- by spraying a little bit of a MC solution on them, getting them folded right, and then setting a book or something else heavy and flat over it while it dries, it may hold enough for me to finish the scales... but in the meantime, I just started a new sheet ... if my idea works, I'll have two koi

However, before I do any of that, I've decided from the comments and how many new ideas I have to work with, that I want to play with some of the extra paper I cut away to see how it handles water and wet folding. This way I know whether I need to size the paper, whether I can just use water or if I'll need to use a water-MC combination for folding, or whether the paper even handles wet folding very well at all. Plus it'll give me practice doing all those things.

If all that fails and I just need to use a different paper... *shrug* I'll have a lot more (hands on) experience in paper choice, and I'll try my hand at making a sheet of double MC tissue paper.

Thanks for all the advice so far. I'm going to try to put a lot more folding time in this weekend, but I tend to get bored with pre-folding those scales fairly quickly (I usually get between 2-4 rows in per sitting, then distract myself for a while before coming back). That combined with the extra practice I want to get, I'm not sure I'll be ready to fold the koi until next week sometime.

[HankSimon]

I am not a wet-folder, however, some of the expert wetfolders suggest that you get some clothespins and clamps to hold a wet folded model together.

And, if you want to wet fold a model in more than one sitting, you might try closing it in a plastic bag to stop it from drying. Note, that if you leave it for a few days (as opposed to overnight) it could get moldy, etc.

I do not know if this method would work with the koi.

- Hank Simon

[Jonnycakes]

With the koi, it shouldn't be a problem to wet-fold it in one sitting (after the scales are done, of course!). I have never heard of the plastic bag method, but it sounds interesting at the least. It can be a problem to get a wet-folded model to hold its shape as it dries, but if you use clothes pins (recommended sparingly) or other clips, they can (will) leave marks on the paper. You can pad them with paper towels to minimize this. I prefer using drafting tape (or masking tape placed on/taken off of a t shirt to remove some of the adhesive) to hold models in place.