The Origami Forum

Alright, so I just failed my twelfth try at the ancient dragon and I'm getting pissed now. I've been trying to make this stupidly awesome model for almost a year now and the furthest I've gotten is step 189. I've tried it with a regular piece of printer paper (dont judge me, it was my first try and I was naive), a 35cm sheet of tracing paper (3 times), a 50cm sheet of tracing paper, a 30cm sheet of paper pallete, and a 57 cm sheet of banner paper (worked the best), and a sheet of tissue foil around 40cm. Is there something that Im just not getting? Like some technique for folding the paper as thin as possible or some special way to make folds in thick places? help please.

hmm fold accurately? Make sure the paper is PERFECTLY square (sorry for the bold but I cant stress this enough). Finally, post some pics so we can further help you out.

Sounds like you are really trying, which is great. It is possible you just need to work your way up to the ancient dragon. The book that most helped me work up to super complex origami was Jun Maekawa's Genuine Origami, which can be had for a very reasonable price on Amazon.com. The devil that the book ends with is a real classic.

To your specific question, some papers i have had success with and some tips:
- This model is achievable with all kinds of papers, but almost all papers will require wet folding or MC for shaping to hold small folds and to make the dragon hold a pose
- Craft paper is very good and is easy to find very big. Staples sells "Art Paper" rolls in many colors that are huge 3 ft wide (90 cm).
- Brown wrapping paper is a decent choice (they even stock it at a dollar store near me)
- Double Tissue works well but can be a pain to make and can be tough to find really large

I find tracing paper way to brittle for anything with closed sinks, it tends to split on me when reversing it. you can use tracing paper between two sheets of tissue paper, just like tissue foil. This has some very useful properties

Reading your post I can make jus one deduction, you need to more practice with more simple models. The only way to learn how to deal with folds that involve many leayers in (my opinion) is your own experience, try and error.

Also you should try to fold from bigger sheets of paper, althought 50x50 cm is the sugested size of paper according to WOSK book is a bit small for that model, not to say for practicing. If I'm in a mistake correct me but I thinks Kamiya folded his dragon froma 1.2mx1.2m sheet of paper. I folded mine from a 80x80 cm sqr. and turned to be very small making very difficult to shappe good details.

As you gain experience you will eventually fold from smaller papers.

haomaru87 wrote:Make sure the paper is PERFECTLY square (sorry for the bold but I cant stress this enough).

the larger the square, the less it needs to be perfect. conversely, the smaller the square, the more it needs to be perfect.

anyway, the easiest way to practice this model is to tape together four pieces of kami. i wouldn't practice with tissue foil. if you make a mistake with the kami, crumple it up and have another go at it. most folders have more kami than they'll ever use anyway. OTOH, tissue foil does take some effort to make and you usually have to wait at least a couple hours after every sheet you make. so if you mess up you waste all the time you invested in making the sheet, trying to cut a perfect square, etc., etc.

lastly, if this is the first time you've done something complex, pay special mind to what creases are valleys and which are mountains. usually i don't think most ppl pay attention and just fold, but with complex collapses it definitely helps. so make sure on the creases that are marked as valleys the paper on either side is folding towards you, and with mountains the reverse.

also, go through the help topic that flaregloom made.

bethnor wrote:

haomaru87 wrote:Make sure the paper is PERFECTLY square (sorry for the bold but I cant stress this enough).

lastly, if this is the first time you've done something complex, pay special mind to what creases are valleys and which are mountains. usually i don't think most ppl pay attention and just fold, but with complex collapses it definitely helps. so make sure on the creases that are marked as valleys the paper on either side is folding towards you, and with mountains the reverse.

That's actually the best advice I've ever heard. Thanks! =)

well Im trying the ancient dragon too, I have been making origami since I was like 4 or 5 years, I have problems finding the correct paper! because this model needs a really thin paper to make good details it also needs to be a big paper,anyways as I don't have to much time I cant really work a lot in this model, but the first time I tried this model was with a 30X30 of regular paper and as I remember I got to a apart where the paper got really thick and actually I could advance more steps so I left it,Im still looking for the right paper.

double tissue for the win. you can make your own too. =)

Thanks so much for the help. I just got my hands on a meter long piece of kami and folded every other model in the book except for bahamut (still working on it). Im trying to get genuine origami too.

haomaru87 wrote:double tissue for the win. you can make your own too. =)

yeah thanks! that's a really good idea, but i'm from Bolivia so the materials to make the double tissue are quite hard to find,but thanks for the advice, I'll try to found the materials

Yes, i too have tried to make this dragon and i have failed 4 times, although, i cant find paper larger than 40cm by 40 cm. Anyway i cant find the Paper so if anyone lives in melbourne and knows where to get some from i would really appreciate it. But im trying to do some of Satoshi's other models and i have been succeding.

you could glue 4 40x40 sheets together to get a big sheet

You said you made it to 189? Tadashi Mori made a set of videos explaining some of the hard steps to the Ancient Dragon, and one of them just happens to cover steps 189-192. I'll post it here.

haomaru87 wrote:hmm fold accurately? Make sure the paper is PERFECTLY square (sorry for the bold but I cant stress this enough). Finally, post some pics so we can further help you out.

Oh, so thats why i cant fold the ancient dragon?

hey orca.
i dont know if your being sarcastic or if english isn't your first language but there are lots of reasons you might not be able to fold the dragon. I expect you would be able to know why you cant finish it.