MC - Methyl Cellulose

[djG]

Hey everybody, I'm new here!

I had been making double tissue with no problems on a big glass sheet until I accidentally put my weight on it and cracked it. I figured I'd just get an acrylic sheet to replace it, because it won't break and because people have said that you can use either. But I'm having some issues.

As the paper dries, it lifts off of the acrylic by itself. I can even hear the paper making little cracking sounds as it detaches from the surface. During the drying process, as it dries inhomogeneously, the paper gets seriously warped because parts of the paper are stuck to the sheet and parts are not. This warped paper is obviously unacceptable for our purposes. Any ideas why this is happening?

The MC solution is not the issue- It bonds the paper together very well and I don't want it to be any thicker or thinner. I thought to apply a layer of the solution to the acrylic sheet and then lay on the first sheet, hoping the paper would stick to the sheet during the drying process now, but that didn't work. It did make the back really really smooth though, if that's useful to anyone.

I thought that the sheet might be bending somewhat, but I placed it on the flat floor and the problem persists.

Let me know if you've had such a problem or know of a solution!

Thanks, Adnan
I've tried fan drying it like I used to on the glass sheet, but that just makes it all worse.

[GrossMichael]

Welcome to the Forum! I think your issue is that the sheet of acrylic has some imperfections where the tissue paper doesn't adhere and that's why it lifts off. Try buying a piece of glass which has the advantage that you can cut the paper on it.

[djG]

I've inspected the acrylic sheet, it's brand spanking new and has zero scratches. Further, the locations from which the paper lifts off is completely random, suggesting that it can't be a local imperfection on the sheet.

Michael, have you had the opportunity to experiment with acrylic first hand? Did it work for you, or did you have some problems as well?

And really, you can put a razor to the glass surface? I considered it for a moment but never tried. I would imagine it leaves marks on the glass, does it not?

[GrossMichael]

I just remembered that it happened to me ,too, on one of my first tries. If you use the method that Sara describes in her video (lay the two sheets on top of each other and apply the glue on top) it's possible that the glue gets to the acrylic only in some places, and that's where the sheet gets stuck. If that's your case you could try laying one sheet of tissue pn the acrylic, applying Mc, then rolling the other sheet of tissue over it and applying mc again.
I used a sheet of acrylic once, but I didn't like it because it was thin and easy to bend. (Thus making me think that the unevenness might be the problem for you.)
Yes, you can use a knife on glass whithout leaving any marks on the glass, but the blade will get blunt if you cut too much.
What tissue paper do you use? Maybe the fibers don't absorb the glue equally. If the paper is bonded together you could try ironing it so it gets straight again.
Other than that I can only recommend you to buy a new piece of glass.

[djG]

Sara's method has never worked for me. I always have to do as you suggested, and lay the sheets down one at a time. I think this is because the tissue paper I use (from Michael's 'Celebrate It' brand in the United States) has an already glossyish and thus impermeable side. But anyway, the one sheet at a time works for me on glass.

The reason I don't want to use glass is because I had the opposite issue with it. It was the biggest pain getting the paper off; the paper would constantly be tearing on the edges as I peeled it off, and I'd really have to babysit it with a knife, guiding the tears in the paper out to the edge, which got really annoying.

I am confident the acrylic is flat as it is drying... I'm just surprised because many people have claimed that they have gotten acrylic to work, and I'm having these difficulties.

Anyway, thanks a lot Michael! I appreciate the advice!

Adnan

[al-black]

Hey Adnan,

I use acrylic and both methods, and they've worked for me. (Mind you I don't use double tissue a lot.) I've used similar paper and *not* had good results.

A for what its worth, I use one side of the acrylic for cutting (and it works fine) and the other side for gluing and prep.

al

[djG]

In case anyone is having the same issues I did, I figured out a trick. These glass and acrylic plates were purchased from Home Depot in the USA.

Scrap the Acrylic, it's too much. I got it to work by taping down the edges of the paper and letting it dry. But that's more work than I think we should need to do.

Use glass, and if the paper is sticking to it too much and tearing as you take it off, lay down a long piece of plastic on the glass and roll/place the tissue sheets so that one edge lays on the plastic tape surface. Then when it dries, this edge will probably get uplifted and a little warped, so you can't use it to fold, but it provides an excellent handle to pull the rest of the sheet off with out getting the resulting paper to be a curly mess or tearing.

Some chemist here can explain why MC doesn't stick as hard to plastics/polymers as it does to glass.

Three other tips: Make sure to clean the surface very well before using it again. Any MC still stuck on the surface tears my paper as I take it off. I wash it in the shower with soap. Next, I find that if my solution is too water/ too thin, the paper is effectively stuck to the glass no matter what I do. So thicken it up. That egg yolk consistency rule of thumb seems to be working for me, though I tend to make it just a bit thicker, I think. Lastly, I find that mixing MC in cold water works better than hot. It clumps much worse in hot for me. Again, a chemist or AP Chemistry student should be able to explain this, I think.

Thanks again for the assistance!
Adnan

[Edg]

A good way I've found for getting double tissue of glass without tearing is to spray a very fine mist of water into the air above the sheet, just enough to dampen it ever so slightly. Peels off nicely!

[Earlobes]

would $11.99 be a good price for (1.5 OZ)MC?

I've had good results with Elmer's Art Paste. I bought 2 oz for $5 USD in an arts and crafts store.

[OrigamiGeek]

Okay I might look around a bit more to find a better deal.

[bethnor]

i'm thinking about making the leap soon, but there's something i'm not entirely clear on after going through the thread (phew) and reading lafosse's materials.

most of the written material talks about backcoating or gluing two sheets together. can you add sizing to just one sheet of unryu, lokta, or whatever, and how does it fold?

[al-black]

Absolutely. Use it all the time with lokta, and occasionally with some cheap washi I have. A for what its worth I have two small tubs of mixed mc -- one a bit thinner, one a bit thicker than egg yolks. Use the thin one for the glass/acrylic then coat the top with the thicker one. I have a hard foam roller (a wall paper roller) that I pass over the paper a couple of times to remove bubbles and extra mc.

You'll have thin strong crips sheets of paper. (And will its kind of fun to fuss with.)

[bmgeof]

Hey all! Long time folder, first time MC user! I have several projects that I want to try out that I think would benefit from some better quality paper. Wanted to practice on some cheaper paper before I go and buy the more pricey stuff. Don't want to waste it! Have been using regular printer paper, but it just doesn't hold up to some of the more complex folds etc. I was wondering if it would be worth the time/effort to treat regular printer paper with MC. Thanks for any help you guys can provide!

[Earlobes]

I don't think I'd resize printer paper, but you could always use MC to shape the model at the end.

[gordigami]

Sure, I don't see a lot of value in using MC for printer paper, in that it is fairly crisp already.
One way to practice with printer paper is to glue or tape two sheets together, side by side, then cut out the larger square.
A larger sheet will handle multiple folds somewhat better.
The appearance of the tape or glued section will not matter, if you have the mindset that it is a practice or throw away model.