MC - Methyl Cellulose

[ETMOrigami]

I have a question. I've been trying to use mc for a while now but it always works out terribly . I have not managed to make a piece of MC treated paper that has made crisp creases yet. It also weakens and gets softer as I fold it. The problem is not my MC mixture since I have changed it many times and it has never makes a difference. It is not my abilities to apply it either for I can effortlessly make a wrinkle-free piece of paper. I know that not everbody has this probllem since I have seen many super complex models folded by people using the same paper I'm using! Double tissue, single tissue, thai unryu, origami-shop kraft, and rice. Please help.

[GrossMichael]

Are you sure that your mixture is Methyl Cellulose? Where did you buy it?
If it is Methyl Cellulose it's possible that the mixture isn't ok. MC should be the consistency as egg yolk. Another possible problem could be that MC doesn't glue very well right after mixing; you should let it stay a day before using it.

[ETMOrigami]

Accoriding to the box it came in, it says pure methyl cellulose and I let my MC sit until the powder has completely dissolved AND it my mixture has the consistensy of egg yolk. One thing I did forget to mention in my last post though was that I treat the paper on acrylic instead of glass. I don't think that would make a difference though.

[origami_8]

Maybe try making one sheet on glass. Any picture frame or mirror should do. It's just for a small trial sheet.

[ETMOrigami]

Okay I'll try that...

[origamipete]

this is great! Just what I was looking for, I hope I can make MC work for me!

[ETMOrigami]

Okkaaayyy.... sorry that took so long. All of you know how it is at the end of the school year (hectic) Anyways, I made some thai unryu and double tissue and this is what happend.

Nothing, except that the shiny side was not sticky when I pulled it off so I think I will stick to glass anyways but it still did not meet the expectations that all of you make of MC treated paper. For example: the thai unryu was still seemed more like a fabric than a paper. As a matter of fact, if you crumpled it, it wouldn't even make a crumpling sound and you can easily rub out any creases in the paper. As for the double tissue, it was quite unchanged as far as I could tell but I didn't get the chance to fold it because I couldn't find my cutting mat Assuming the double tissue was unchanged like the thai unryu though, I thought of an example of the double tissue's low performance. When I was making an ancient dragon out of double tissue one time, I had to quit on step 66 because I could not even find the creases I made in step 25 so I had to draw the creases out in another attempt and when I did get farther, I still couldn't finish it because the paper would literally become to soft to work with. It is almost like the MC falls of when I fold it. Why did I even bother trying to treat it on glass knowing that people make ryujin rice paper on their floors? Maybe pure MC isn't the way to go. What kind do all of you use? Brands that can be bought in USD$ would be prefered if you think that the kind I bought may be the problem. Anyways, thanks for the replies so far

[phillipcurl]

No, pure MC is the way to go. I use this kind, personally. Works great. There could be a variety of things causing your paper to get soft - the first of which is that it may be cheap paper, made with short, thin wood fibers. I advise ordering the art tissue from the same website as the MC, its the best tissue paper I've ever used.

The surface should have nothing to do with how the paper turns out... I usually make mine on a large sheet of plastic. I've made it on glass, likewise, and it is no different honestly. Plastic is cheaper, easier to replace, easier to transport - the only thing glass has on it is the ability to clean it so easily.

Try mixing the MC thicker. If it still doesn't work, order the one I left a link to and try it.

[origamipete]

No, pure MC is the way to go. I use this kind, personally. Works great.

thanks for the link philip!

[al-black]

A for what its worth. After I MC a sheet of lakota, pull it off, and let it sit around a while, it gets for lack of a better term a little wavy. Not a crisis, but it makes the paper a bit harder to fold accurately.

I can't remember where I read it, someone suggested ironing the paper for wrinkles. In this case it works brilliantly! Thanks!

al

(p.s., this batch of lakota I got does bleed, btw, so I'll work and post on that...)

[ETMOrigami]

This is the MC I have and the tissue paper is just regular gift tissue I bought at the dollar store so you are probably right about it being made cheaply. I don't see anything different about your MC though so I think I will just try making a batch with a thicker consistency.

[ginshun]

I use the same MC that philipcurl mentioned above and unryu from http://www.mulberrypaperandmore.com/c-2 ... paper.aspx, and it works great when mixed to the consistency of egg whites. I am thinking there is something wonky with your MC or dollar store paper, because it sounds to me like everything you are doing is correct. Make sure you are using enough, both when you mix, and when you apply. The two sheets of paper should be completely saturated to the point where there is a thin layer of MC that won't even really soak in anymore. I did a 25" sheet of double unryu yesterday, and used probably 1/2 a pint of the mix described.
When it is dry completely (overnight should do it), it will be 100% flat and stuck to the glass pretty good. It should peal off nicely in a crisp sheet though.
This is the paper that almost everything in my gallery here and on Flickr are made from.

[Baltorigamist]

Thanks to a lot of prodding, I'm finally "graduating" from foil, and I was looking for a tutorial on backcoating the paper with MC. I searched the forum but couldn't find much.
In case it's important, I'm looking to backcoat Thai unryu, banana paper, and glassine, mainly for use with complex models.

[Nathan1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMSRgpnpi0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc3ACbl75N0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNHxIeDyc_Q

Here are some tutorials on how to treat paper with MC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlDTePa ... 8q&index=2

Heres a link on how to shape with MC

[nerologic]

There are two possible issues with the MC you are using, ETMOrigami

There are many kinds of methylcellulose with different properties. The F50 that you have is a relatively low viscosity MC used for whipping up food ingredients into stiff foams. It's ultimately a DOW product, even though Willpowder repackages it. I believe the MC used for paper crafts is a higher viscosity version, ~100x as viscous as F50.

Also, since you are preparing the MC from powder, I think you need to heat the solution to ~65˚C in order for the powder to actually hydrate and become a proper gel. That may affect its coating properties. (EDIT: heating clearly isn't necessary for the stuff sold specifically for paper sizing, as many folks here can attest, so it is most likely the case that your viscosity is simple too low. Order some craft store MC for a fraction of the price, then use what you have to make tasty methocel meringues: whip 1.5g MC F50 into 100 ml fruit juice, drop it onto parchment paper, and dehydrate it into fruity crisps in the lowest setting your oven has)

Trust me, I'm a materials scientist.

More info here (with a foodie bent):
http://www.playingwithfireandwater.com/ ... ulose.html

Way more info than anyone cares about in the DOW primer for its MC products:
http://www.dow.com/dowwolff/en/pdf/192-01062.pdf