Phu Tran Rose Leaves

[e-mo]

hi there...

I dont know what kind of leaves thay are..just found it online so I wanna share. but you seem to know how to do the other leaves....as you said on your flickr...you did it respectively inspired by that guy. since you did it yourself...maybe you can share it, as that will not concern any copyright issues rite?!

[xaoslord]

Hi e-mo.

If it was my own creation, there would be no problem in sharing how to fold the leaves. To be perfectly honest, I don't know if the way I fold the leaves are the same as Phu's or not. But as I tried to recreate the leaves from the photos of his own leaves, it is not my creation to share. I would have to defer to the wishes of the creator of the model. If Phu looked at the leaves and said they are not like his, then I would have the freedom to share them as I wished. I hope this doesn't come across as me saying "I have a secret and I won't tell you!" This isn't the case at all. This forum has always tried to take a stance that a model is the property of the creator and we must respect their wishes. We have the privilege of having many origami creators post and contribute to this forum. If we don't treat them and their creations with respect, then why would they continue to contriubte to this forum? I hope this reponse makes sense. If not, please feel free to ask any questions.

[e-mo]

thanks for your reply and I do completely understand your point of view. So I will try to figure it out myself but with some help, that would be great

thanks in advance,

e-mo

[e-mo]

Artur finally published his rose leafs at http://www.pto.art.pl/biuletyn07.php .
Damn....I am not member of the PTO....
I think his leafs are very good, very authentic.

e-mo

[nonkelgans]

*cough*

Phu Tran has made it very clear he doesn't want people folding his rose. He probably doesn't even want you to be thinking about it. Please try something else.

LOL, this is a joke right?? Either way, I have the diagram to fold it on my computer so it's already too late, things are spreading. Hell, I will fold it later this day, just for fun.

[origami_8]

Unfortunately it is no joke
Phu Tran never gave his permission for these diagrams and he is very angry that those are available. Furthermore they aren't accurate but just a trial by someone else to get a similar result. This is a very hot subject, so please do not discuss it any further.

[nonkelgans]

W00t!!! So we have to shut up because 1 individual isn't happy that his creation is diagrammed by someone?? That's ridiculous to say the least, on which planet called Utopia is this Phu Tran living?? If you publish something then you can expect that other people are trying to imitate it. He should be happy that people are folding it and make diagrams, in this way it will live on forever instead going to the eternal fields of unknown foldings when he leaves this planet.

I'm shocked to read here that censure-ship can be enforced by one unhappy folder. Even more shocking is that a Site Admin is going along with all this. Nothing personal Origami_8, I love this site as it has learned me much already but the whole thing is not OK.

[origamimasterjared]

It's not just that Phu did not give permission to make the diagrams. He specifically requested that they not be distributed. Part of the reason for asking someone if you can do something is to give them the opportunity to say no. Sometimes, the person will. In this case Phu said NO, but the kid went ahead and did it anyway. THAT IS WHY THIS IS WRONG.

I don't agree with the fall-out that followed. (Phu disappearing from origami indefinitely, and admirers becoming attackers, sharing the incorrect unauthorized diagrams with malicious intent). And I don't care what version you have. I learned the rose from Phu years ago, and they're all wrong.

When someone asks me if they can diagram/make video instructions of one of my designs I sometimes say yes, and I sometimes say no. There are reasons for both. If I plan on diagramming it myself I do not want someone else diagramming it first. (I've written other posts about this). Phu said he indeed was planning on diagramming his stuff, including the rose. Now he won't.

Have some damn respect, man. It's this type of thinking that is chasing away many authors both from this forum and from diagramming in general.

[nonkelgans]

Have some damn respect, man. It's this type of thinking that is chasing away many authors both from this forum and from diagramming in general.

Where exactly didn't I show respect?? It's not because one person has an issue with someone making diagrams that the whole forum should be censured. No matter who he is we may discuss whatever the hell we want on the internet.

[origamimasterjared]

Well, for starters here is one of the most disrespectful posts I've ever read on the forum:

Either way, I have the diagram to fold it on my computer so it's already too late, things are spreading. Hell, I will fold it later this day, just for fun.

And then this:

W00t!!! So we have to shut up because 1 individual isn't happy that his creation is diagrammed by someone?? That's ridiculous to say the least, on which planet called Utopia is this Phu Tran living?

Yes, this does show a total lack of respect.

No matter who he is we may discuss whatever the hell we want on the internet.

Fine, go somewhere else and discuss whatever you want. This is thekhans Origami Forum, not the internet. Read the forum rules, they really do address this: viewtopic.php?t=279

[Moog]

I think that there's not any censorship pointing out that:

a) Phu Tran's Rose (a variation of Kawasaki's Rose) has not legitimate diagrams

b) The diagrams that can be found on internet are not authorized and are wrong

I think that, in the terms of the forum, we can't discuss on those diagrams, but we can about PhuTran's rose, if it's beautiful, how much is similar to Kawasaki's or to any other, arguing what's the design behind etc. etc.

Nothing can be said on Phu Tran's decision, a personal choice is a personal choice, it's possible to agree or not, but we must grant some rights to the authors.

[nonkelgans]

Well, for starters here is one of the most disrespectful posts I've ever read on the forum:

I don't know what's more disrespectful, saying the truth about something or being responsible for a censored forum because of something that happened completely out of the control of the forum users to begin with. The guy isn't even a member here, at least not under the name Phu Tran. So why let one guy dictate the subjects we want to talk about?? Is he suddenly the Caesar of the Origami?? And no matter how you turn it, this site is a part of the internet, without the internet it would not exist in this form.

[origami_8]

The reason why censorship takes place is that we don't want to get into troubles.
Because of this topic so many people got hurt and driven away from Origami. This shouldn't ever happen. Talking about it may open old wounds that should rather remain untouched.
Phu Tran was and most likely still is a member of this Forum and also if he wouldn't be that's no reason to speak bad about him behind his back.

[HankSimon]

I agree. This is not censorship of a concept. It is respect for one designer.

Someone published his work without permission. It was like stealing his wallet and then spitting in his face, an ugly situation, much worse than some of the little back and forth flame wars. He was deeply hurt, withdrawing from the general community, so we lost out.

So, out of respect for his feelings, we try not to discuss his models, because the conversations quickly go downhill. As part of a gentle and giving community, I am embarrassed to think of how much damage we have done to a few individuals. And, I would prefer to do no more harm.

- Hank Simon

[nonkelgans]

OK, I will shut my pie hole about it.