Glue, Wetfolding, Tissue Foil and Purism

Post by **origami_8** » April 28th, 2006, 2:27 pm

After you have your ready square (or maybe rectangle,...) nothing else that folding is allowed, so putting some varnish on the model afterwards is against my personal rules. (And to say it once again, these are my own rules and nobody without me has to follow them!)

wolf · Post by **wolf** » April 28th, 2006, 2:30 pm

Then, what if, hypothetically speaking, you've applied the goop in such a way that insect appendages mysteriously narrow into long thin points, or if the goop gets tacky after drying and somehow sticks two flaps together, or...

Post by **origami_8** » April 28th, 2006, 2:32 pm

What a question? Forbidden, what else!

thedeadsmellbad · Post by **thedeadsmellbad** » April 28th, 2006, 2:36 pm

Gooping is gooping is gooping, see here

Though I must admit someone gave me an idea I've been tempted to toy with. Creating a tissue foil model then lighting it on fire so the paper burns away and see what it would look like.

Friet · Post by **Friet** » April 28th, 2006, 2:52 pm

I'm not talking about changing anything about the model. I'm talking about applying a bit of glue to conserve the model.

The ancient dragon I folded a while ago (picture in the what have you folded lately thread) looked exactly the same before I applied the glue as afterwards. And thanks to the glue I applied (a drop at the belly and two for the hind legs) it still looks exactly the same as when I finished folding it. I can get the legs in the position I want them by putting the model between two books for a while (which I did), but that just won't last if you put the model on display somewhere. And if I put a drop of glue between the legs I won't have to re-do the legs every week...

Your argument about paper with glue not being for sale in shops in contrast to foil paper doesn't make much sense to me by the way. You can also buy books with diagrams that require the use of scissors, and that doesn't make it pure origami either. I can also find lots of paper with shapes other than squares (or even rectangles) so according to your argument that would be pure origami too. I also bought a package of origami paper with which you could make some modular ball, and it included rope to keep the modules together.

I'm probably reapeating myself here, but I think that modifying the entire paper before folding so you can shape your models in a way that wouldn't be possible when folding with just paper is not more pure (maybe even less) than applying some extra material afterwards to keep it in a shape that was created using normal paper.

p.s. Maybe a moderator can give this discussion it's own thread? It would be pretty interesting to hear other people's thoughts about this matter. Probably an pretty endless discussion since it's based on opinions rather than facts but pretty interesting nonetheless.

wolf · Post by **wolf** » April 28th, 2006, 2:58 pm

thedeadsmellbad wrote:Creating a tissue foil model then lighting it on fire so the paper burns away and see what it would look like.

If your aluminium foil is thin enough, it will melt as the tissue burns. Most kitchen aluminium foils are coated with a thin layer of food-grade oil. BT, DT.

Post by **origami_8** » April 28th, 2006, 6:24 pm

Friet wrote:Maybe a moderator can give this discussion it's own thread?

Done.

Alexandre · Post by **Alexandre** » April 29th, 2006, 7:02 pm

I was folding this afternoon the space shuttle of Nishikawa, and at quite the end, I read "Glue the top portion". I was like "uh?wtf?". In fact I sed a bit of "sticky tack" for this, but I was really surpised that I would be obliged to use it... In this model It is really hard I think to keep the top of the shuttle closed without glue or sticky tack or foil paper.

steyen · Post by **steyen** » May 1st, 2006, 2:06 am

i agree with u anna.
when i read all the post only i realised that actually im a purist too..nothing but a sheet of paper and my own fingers

steyen · Post by **steyen** » May 1st, 2006, 2:09 am

actually i wondered how satoshi kamiya folded such perfect appendages ,such as the thin legs of the wasp. but now i feel a bit disappointed after knowing that they're glued..
anyway,did robert lang uses glue too?his insect appendages are very thin n doesnt seem to bulge/reopen too

thedeadsmellbad · Post by **thedeadsmellbad** » May 1st, 2006, 4:11 am

I think I remember it being said he does apply something to some models. I think it was his cicada in the article i read

Ondrej.Cibulka · Post by **Ondrej.Cibulka** » May 1st, 2006, 10:52 am

I am not so metal-tipped in English so I will try to be short.
Robert Lang shows the method how to design more detailed models in his book Origami design secrets. One simple model + details = big square of paper with large unused redundant area. So it is wasting of paper. I do not like this way to fold anything. For me it is better to use for instance rectangle instead of hiding many unused paper.
The same about cutting. Why I need use really big piece of paper for making many layers to form for example wings when two small cuts much more simplifying whole model. I prefere traditional origami -- simple models which only sketch real object and I can remember folding procedure for a long time. Nothing as Lang's mantis.

At the end somthing about glueing for stabilizing of the model. Someone use the wet folding (and it is in fact the same as glueing or using celulose -- you impregnate the paper, shape it and then dry it), someone glueing, someone lackquer. I do not use anything because it is manual work and as I said before I am very lazy. So if it is not possible to make model without any additional technique than folding, I do not fold it. Only if the model is very perfect for me -- as J. Wu's sus scrofa.
I am affraid that my English is worse than on the start so I will end my opoinion.

wolf · Post by **wolf** » May 1st, 2006, 1:36 pm

Ondrej.Cibulka wrote:Robert Lang shows the method how to design more detailed models in his book Origami design secrets. One simple model + details = big square of paper with large unused redundant area.

Actually, I'll argue the opposite - details usually means that there's hardly any redundant area left on the paper. A simplified model dealing with the same subject will often have more unused paper compared to a detailed model.

polop · Post by **polop** » May 1st, 2006, 5:43 pm

I thik glue is alright if it aids the aperance of the model as long as the model does not require glue. I rather use a square but im Just as happy with using different rectangles. Glooping is an effect added to the model afterwards So I am also ok with that. But on the other hand there is no way to make sell my soul to the devil and c*t (Blood curduling scream!!) during the folding proses (cutting to get the right size of paper is alright though)

im.xing · Post by **im.xing** » May 4th, 2006, 1:50 am

what material does Mr. Eric Joisel use to make his models waterproof? any idea? orelse can anyone suggest me the way to preserve my models?

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Glue, Wetfolding, Tissue Foil and Purism

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