MC - Methyl Cellulose

General discussion area for learning about paper, and the different types available.
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Swapnil Das
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Swapnil Das »

Can MC be found on stationery's?
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Mir Numaan
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Mir Numaan »

try your school lab
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origami_8
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by origami_8 »

Langko wrote:So since MC can be expensive and hard to locate
The hard to locate part may or may not be true, but expensive? I bought my pack of MC for under 5 Euro, eight years ago and haven't finished it yet and we are two folders at home who use it regularly. I bought it at a local hardware store, but they also usually have it at paint shops, hobby shops, university shops and I've also heard of people getting it at a pharmacy. http://amazon.de also ships it (search for "Metylan normal"). It is the stuff that is used to adhere large advertisement posters to poster walls, so you could also ask someone hanging up those posters if he could give you some.
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Swapnil Das
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Swapnil Das »

Thanks, Anna! I'll try the local hardware and paint store! as for amazon, I don't have a credit card.
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Mir Numaan »

how much mc should be mixed with water if:
1. I want to glue 2 sheets?
2. I want to shape a model?
Where should i store mc solution? Will it dry up?
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origami_8
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by origami_8 »

I always have a jar of thick MC solution in the fridge. Not sure if it is necessary to store it in the fridge but it works great for me. Just make sure to close your jar tightly and it should easily last for a very long time. To make the thick solution I just put water and some MC powder into a jar, close it and shake vigorously. The powder should dissolve completely. It might be necessary to shake it again a few times. When you shake it many small air bubbles will build up, those will vanish if you let it rest for a day or so. If you aren't happy with the consistency, you can always add some powder or water, just try what works best for you. Whenever I need MC, I pour a little bit of the thick solution out into a bowl and mix it with so much water that it gets about the consistency of egg white. It might take some trials to find out how much you really need, but after some time you will get a feeling for it. For wet shaping the solution can be a bit thicker than for making double MC paper, but it really depends on you what you prefer.
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Mir Numaan »

thanks!
EDIT: can MC remove pre-creases on a folded model? :-s
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Benlewisorigami
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Benlewisorigami »

Yep. depends on the paper
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Hank
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Hank »

Methyl cellulose is a synthetic polymer that can be derived from cellulose chains. There are several forms of methyl cellulose that can be obtained commercially -- they vary by molecular weight and degree of methyl (single carbon) groups attached to the cellulose molecule. This results in different physical properties, including how easily it dissolves in water, what temperature it gels at, and to some extent how good an adhesive it is. Basically, methylcellulose is used in papermaking as a sizing agent. Starch (e.g. wheat starch) can be used for sizing; gelatin is used for some art papers (e.g. Fabriano, Mi-teintes). Many commercial (machine made, but sometimes hand made) papers use other synthetic compounds. One is referred to as "dimer". Sodium carboxymethylcellulose is also used instead of plain methylcellulose. It has somewhat different properties, and is a somewhat stronger adhesive.

Both MC and CMC are often used as "internal sizes" which means they are put in at the pulp-making stage. In origami, they are used as "surface sizing" and can change the properties of soft paper to make them stiffer and more foldable. Both CMC and MC are "reversible" with water, and this makes them popular in art conservation (e.g. as a temporary adhesive). It also means that wet-folding with MC or CMC enhances a paper's ability to hold a shape when dry (especially if there is little internal sizing to begin with).

I think MC and CMC are both popular because they essentially disappear into the paper, without causing a change in surface sheen or texture. They are not tacky. They are probably less prone to deterioration by mold or being eaten by insects compared to wheat starch. However, wheat starch paste can be used for back-coating, has a long history in paper conservation, is often added to inks for traditional woodblock printing (for example) and has stood the test of time as long as art work is stored properly. Wheat starch paste unfortunately needs to be cooked (not just dissolved) and will grow moldy rather quickly (even in the fridge) unless a bacteriocide is added. Bacteriocides are of different toxicities and have varied archival properties.

Both MC and CMC are available in food-grades, and are used as food thickeners, laxatives, cake decorations, etc.

Probably a main reason why MC and CMC don't alter surface appearance much is that there is really very little dissolved solids. 2 percent MC (e.g. 2 grams in 100 ml water) forms a gel, often described as being like egg-white. Pure MC absorbs water readily from the atmosphere, so some of the water used is retained in the paper even though it feels dry.

Methylcellulose has the odd property in that it is more soluble at lower temperatures, and gels when it is warmed up. Keep this in mind when mixing it up! This is used by molecular gastronomists in cooking to get certain effects (like fake fish eggs).

I've found sodium carboxymethylcellulose at pretty cheap prices as a food additive, often sold as "Tylose Powder." It is also sometimes sold by compounding pharmacies. It is a main ingredient in some bulk laxatives. Methylcellulose is popular as a sizing for marbling paper, and so some art supply stores have it in bulk quantities (e.g 1 pound). It is sometimes sold in small quantities alongside wheat starch (e.g. Lineco brand). 25 grams (one ounce) at a 2 percent concentration will make over a liter of MC solution. I've had good luck keeping MC and CMC for months even without refrigeration.

Lately, I have been experimenting with Polyvinyl Alcohol, which is also used widely as a paper additive. It's also used in the form of a film that will dissolve in warm water. Products such as packets of laundry detergent use this property. Hospitals uses bags made out of Polyvinyl Alcohol for linens (they dissolve in the laundry). It is also an ingredient in some pharmaceuticals, where it acts as a binder and also can be used to give medicines a time-release quality. It's been thoroughly studied and found to be safe (does not cause cancer!). Polyvinyl alcohol (PVOH) is also used as fiber additive in concrete, and is also converted into a synthetic fiber for textiles. PVOH is chemically produced from Polyvinyl Acetate (PVA) which is the basis of white glue. However, unlike PVA glue, it is reversible with water.

There are also different forms of PVOH, with different molecular weights and chemical compositions ("degrees of hydrolysis"). The more highly hydrolyzed (e.g. greater than 90 percent) are less soluble in cold water. PVOH solution is also used as the main ingredient in slime (for science demonstrations or movies). PVOH forms crosslinks in the presence of Borax --not useful for origami but good to know. Some science suppliers sell PVOH solution (usually 4 or 5 per cent in water), and often colored green (for maximum creepiness). Sometimes they add fluorescein (a dye that glows green in UV light). PVOH will also turn green in the presence of iodine.

A feature of PVOH as a paper sizing is that it increases folding endurance. I have personally found this to be true. I've used it to treat fairly cheap paper that tears easily to make very foldable paper that has great resistance to tearing. PVOH is also used to stiffen fabric, and would be a great option for fabric folding. PVOH, if left on a surface, with form a transparent, non-sticky film. PVOH has been in some papers to make them inkjet-receptive (e.g. "swellable fibers").

I've had some success with PVOH to make tissue-foil and double-tissue paper, but can't say that I've mastered it. It is adhesive, and in thicker formulations (e.g. 10 percent) it is a gel.

I have purchased PVOH from Talas (in Brooklyn). It is a pain to prepare; while it does not have to be "cooked" like wheat paste, it does need to be properly heated (close to boiling in water), and will form a large glop of gel that won't dissolve it is not added slowly to water. Since it is a gel, it is likely a serious scalding hazard if you get in on you at near-boiling temperatures.

Much of this information comes from a conservation website (COOL) and from material safety data sheets, art material safety info, and US FDA and European articles regarding safety/cancer risk.

Some references (I have no commercial financial interests):

Background: Conservation Online http://cool.conservation-us.org,
Methylcellulose & Sodium Carboxymethylcellulose: Uses in Paper Conservation: http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic ... 01-04.html
Methylcellulose in paper marbling (from commercial supplier): http://www.dharmatrading.com/techniques ... tions.html
Tylose Powder (Amazon.com) http://www.amazon.com/CAI-Tylose-Powder ... ose+powder
Cellulose Gum (CMC): http://www.universityproducts.com/cart. ... ree[]=1574
Methyl Cellulose Adhesive (Lineco): http://www.universityproducts.com/cart. ... Tree[]=978
Preparation of PVOH (Sekisui): http://www.sekisui-sc.com/products/selv ... ation.html (this is the brand I got from Talas)
Talas: http://www.talasonline.com/ BTW, customer service was very responsive in getting me tech info, also sells papers largely aimed at book arts, but including large sheets (70x100 cm) of Elephant Hide, and a variety of decorative and hand-made papers).

This posting might be over-kill but I've been playing around with techniques lately and thought this might be useful to someone.

I aim at doing some systematic studies with the PVOH, but feel pretty secure in its general safety and archival qualities, and its strong history in papermaking so don't expect any bad surprises.

The whole field of archival and conservation issues in origami seems insufficiently studied!

Hank Shapiro
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Edg »

Great post, Hank, very interesting and helpful. As an aside, anyone know why my prepared mc gel ( Well its actually called cellulose adhesive on the pack, but my guess is its primary ingredient is mc) turns completely liquid after a couple of weeks in the fridge? I got some museum grade mc this week from my brother, so maybe this will be different.
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Mir Numaan »

is there any difference between MC and CMC? Also, what are the advantages of treating any kind of paper with M.C? Thanks!
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by OrigamiGeek »

quick question.
if I had (1.5 OZ) of MC approximately how many papers would I be able to treat?
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by GrossMichael »

Depends a lot on the size of the paper and how you mix the MC. Just try it and see how much MC you need for one sheet.
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by OrigamiGeek »

would $11.99 be a good price for (1.5 OZ)MC?
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ginshun
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by ginshun »

I get it from Dick Blick art supplies online, and it is $8.39 plus shipping, so that price is not bad.

as far as how long it lasts, like somebody else said, it depends on the size of the paper. For reference, everything in my gallery / Flickr that is done with unryu was done using a single 1.5 oz container, plus several other models that I never photographed or posted. I actually just ran out and re-ordered. It will last a while.
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