Joseph Wu's works

[steyen]

Hi everyone,

I wonder whether there is a CP or diagram of Joseph Wu's Grand dragon?
Does he publish books for his models?

[TheRealChris]

I wonder whether there is a CP or diagram of Joseph WU's Grand dragon?

you mean his multiple piece dragon? didn't he wrote on his webpage, that there are no diagrams for that dragon? this may have changed...


- Christian

[gilad_zn]

As Joseph Wu so often likes to tell everyone, he preffers to spend his time creating new models and not diagramming them. Occaisonaly he draws up a CP or simple diagrams, but there are usually no instructions for his models, which is kind of sad because they're really great

[TheRealChris]

but there are usually no instructions for his models, which is kind of sad because they're really great

you're right, he's a really great designer.
maybe he simply isn't able to draw clear diagrams for his complex models? I mean it's not that easy. drawing diagrams really takes a lot of time to finish (that's because I accept the price of origami books) and maybe he doesn't want to spend the time to learn it???


- Christian

[gilad_zn]

From hearing him sporadicaly at PCOC2003 and his responses on the O-List, I think that he believes it much more productive for him to spend his time creating rather than diagramming (which, as you said, takes a lot of time and work, much mroe than most people think). He did make diagrams for his Eastern Dragon (which is availabe on his site), and they are quite good, so I think it's mostly the how-to-spend-your-time-issue.

I think that if he had spent more of his time diagramming, then we probably wouldn't have so many great models to drool over right now...

[Stephenli]

No, Mr. Wu does not create diagram. His site has all the diagrams and crease pattern he has. It is much better to ask him to teach you to fold the model than asking him for the diagram.

[rockmanex6]

Scaled werm 1 piece?, I fold yes in head I gues

Multipiece dragin.. no

to Eastem dragin, look site fold diagramy


Many this works .. multipiece modelso no interect me! Rock <<>>

[BigFIFan]

It always irks the crap out of me when creators refuse to diagram at least some of their models in some form or another. What a way to prohibit the expansion of the hobby, of the art. I'd think it would be the highest compliment to a designer to have others wanting to fold their models. Especially for someone like me who can't fold from a CP.

[wolf]

It always irks the crap out of me when creators refuse to diagram at least some of their models in some form or another.

Yeah well, maybe if:
1) they get compensated for their time; let's see, 6 hrs minimum for a marginally complex model, minimum wage about $6, gets you maybe $36 once and for all per model. Not a very productive use of time, that.
2) they actually got any feedback on the diagrams they do. And not just of the "wow, that's so cool" variety either. Having other folders fold your stuff doesn't advance the "art" in any way if you don't get any constructive criticism about it.
3) they didn't have to spend time deciphering whiny emails from people demanding diagrams.

Besides, not having diagrams encourages you to try and recreate the model, so you can also argue that it's a better way of encouraging innovation.

Plus, designers can just as equally well say, "it irks the crap out of me when folders refuse to learn how to fold from CPs"...

[BigFIFan]

I don't know what planet you're on buddy. There are literally hundreds of diagrams all over the internet. Nobody asked the creators to diagram their creations, they did it so they everyone could share it. Not everybodys greedy, though you may think so.

Creators get feedback all the time in the origami community. We're a very close-knit group. We have message boards, mailing lists, newsletters, and most importantly, conventions. Feedback is given using these means. Many creators fold test models given to them from other creators and give feedback that way.

[Edited by snkhan on 10/12/2004 to remove profanity].

[saj]

BigFIFan: calm down! You mention that creators are greedy by not publishing their diagrams. Have you considered the time and effort required to make a complete set of diagrams?

Often (as in most cases with internet diagrams) creators make these for free using their spare time. In addition, not everyone can afford (or have the the skills necessary) to use graphic software packages to make diagrams.

As an example, I have created a few original models. I attempted to produce the diagrams in MS Word and later in Macromedia Fireworks. After spending around 10 hours experimenting, I gave up. And I can imagine that other creators feel the same way.

And from what I've heard, Joseph (Wu) is always willing to share his folding methods at conventions. Oh, and remember, that Joseph is a full time Origamist; and by that I mean that his income depends on his work. In most cases, he signs the copyright of a model over to his client and thus can't publish any diagrams.

Just my 2 cents.

saj

[saj]

I received an official reply from Joseph Wu:

First of all, the bottom line of why I don't diagram very much is this: I don't like to diagram. I find it tedious. I find it painful. And I'm a
perfectionist when it comes to diagrams, so even when I do diagram, I often feel they're not good enough to release. (Although I usually release them anyway.) As for having others diagram for me, I've tried that a number of times, but only one set were ever completed (for "When Pigs Grow Wings and Fly"), so I'm a little reluctant to try it again.

Second, as Stephen Li said, I'm usually willing to teach my designs to
people in person (and Stephen has benefited from this because he happens to live in the same city as I do). Time required and my current memory (or lack thereof) of the requested model might restrict that. So I do get upset by people who claim that because I don't diagram, I'm not willing to share. I find that the people who demand to be given diagrams to be selfish. They don't seem to understand that sharing is a voluntary action. If I choose to share, and I usually do, that's my choice. If I choose not to, that's also my choice. Once "sharing" becomes mandatory, it's no longer sharing. Not diagramming does not equal not sharing.

Having said that, I understand that people would like to fold my designs.
I'm flattered. And I'm sorry, because it remains very unlikely that I will
be able to diagram very much. My personal aversion to diagramming aside, I'm about to become a father for the first time, so my spare time will probably dwindle to nothing. Still, all is not lost. I do have a number of rough diagrams that I may finally clean up and release. I'm also negotiating a CD-ROM project that will feature some of my models. And, last but not least, I'll have a Christmas treat on my website soon. (Unfortunately, it won't be complex, and it may be pre-empted if baby arrives early.)

To address some of the other points raised in this thread:

1. "In most cases, he signs the copyright of a model over to his client and
thus can't publish any diagrams."

Actually, no. In a few cases this is true, but in most cases it is not. I
often promise exclusive usage rights for a period of time, but I retain all
rights otherwise. The Stoli vodka campaign was an exception to this: they
did buy all rights, and I cannot duplicate those models any more.

2. "maybe if they get compensated for their time; let's see, 6 hrs minimum for a marginally complex model, minimum wage about $6, gets you maybe $36 once and for all per model. Not a very productive use of time, that."

I charge more than minimum wage, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to survive in such a niche market. But paying me to diagram isn't necessarily incentive enough. Because I don't like to diagram, I don't often take jobs that require me to produce diagrams.

3. "Besides, not having diagrams encourages you to try and recreate the
model, so you can also argue that it's a better way of encouraging innovation."

I wouldn't have put it that way, but there's some truth to that. People who
are at the point of folding lots of complex designs are ready to start trying
to design models of their own. Granted, not everyone reaches that point, but I find it much more satisfying to come up with something new (even if it's not completely new...most of my designs aren't) than to fold something from a diagram. Those people wishing to pursue this should really read Robert Lang's "Origami Design Secrets."

4. "It always irks the crap out of me when creators refuse to diagram at
least some of their models in some form or another. What a way to prohibit the expansion of the hobby, of the art."

That's fallacious thinking at best, and a load of crap at worst. More
diagrams does not mean the hobby (or the art) expands. There are plenty of good (and bad) beginner-level books and kits out there already. Finding ways of promoting the good ones is the best way to expand the hobby. As for expanding the art, the best way is for origami people to embrace the concept of creating art. Explore, experiment, question, criticize, innovate. No one ever became a great painter by relying on paint-by-number kits. No one will ever become a great origami artist by relying on diagrams (or CPs, for that matter).

That's why I've been promoting more art-focused activities at recent
conventions. The origami peer review, for example, was designed to allow
people to critique each other's work, pointing out strengths and weaknesses, with an aim at improving each participant's work. I've encouraged panel discussions on the development of origami as art. I've had small group discussions with up-and-coming designers about how to improve their work. And I've had many discussions with established origami artists on how to develop awareness of origami as art. (One of the most interesting ones was at YAMAGUCHI Makoto's apartment this August when I translated such a discussion between Eric Joisel and NISHIKAWA Seiji.)

This is a great time to be an origami artist. The art form is still growing
into recognition. We are able to shape how this art grows beyond the
paint-by-numbers stage. This is the Renaissance of origami. Enjoy it!

5. "I'd think it would be the highest compliment to a designer to have
others wanting to fold their models."

Yes, it certainly is. That doesn't change the fact that I find diagramming
painful, though.

6. "Especially for someone like me who can't fold from a CP."

Well, if it's any encouragement, I don't do too well with them either.

[cybermystic]

Congratulations, Joseph! Boy or girl?

By the way, the three-banded armadillo is one of my favorite models.

[Joseph Wu]

butnot pefectinist in dezign

Kinda like your spelling, right?

Actually, you are confusing "perfectionist" with "purist". I am a perfectionist in terms of design. I am not a purist (in general...although many of my designs are purist designs).

[rockmanex6]

haha


purist?
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