Tissue foil vs. Kraft paper

bethnor · Post by **bethnor** » March 29th, 2008, 2:03 am

I've looked through the various topics on the matter, and I'm sorry if I should have continued in the appropriate thread, but ...

People on the forum seem very fond of both tissue foil and kraft paper. re: tissue foil, I have done it before, and I was happy with the end result of the model. I was unhappy, however, with the difficulty in reversing the creases, as Lang warned in his insect book.

In models that involve lots of precreasing (i.e., anything by Kamiya), I would imagine this to be a huge problem. Has tissue foil evolved past that problem, or is it rather that as you become more and more experienced with it, it becomes less of a problem, or was I doing something wrong in making the tissue foil (FYI, I just spray adhesed some turqoise tissue paper to some regular aluminum foil)? Does it matter what kind of tissue paper you use? Is it easier to manipulate something like Mulberry paper or Unryu?...

Re: Kraft paper. I used this once a long time ago to make a large version of the Montroll 3-headed dragon, and I was somewhat disappointed in the paper. I recall it being too flimsy for the end result to be appealing. Did I buy the wrong Kraft paper (I really can't recall if it is this duo-finish heavyweight paper) ... or is everyone using a sizing agent on it?... Or is everyone who loves it just using for practicing models?

Post by **origami_8** » March 29th, 2008, 12:49 pm

As you mentioned above tissue foil has its advantages and disadvantages. It is a little bit easier to change the direction of a crease if the tissue foil is made with white glue instead of spray glue, but I still don't like tissue foil much.
There are foil papers available that are coloured foil on one side and white paper on the other that do not have this problem. Some of them like the foil paper from Nicolas Terry's shop are rather thick, so you need large sheets to compensate that. I'm still in search for a source that carries the thin machine made foil paper in larger sizes (rolls with a width of at least 50cm would be great).

Kraft paper has the advantage that it is nearly untearable. It is available in many different strengths. There was a time when I folded nearly everything with the 32gsm one and was absolutely sure that this would be the best paper for Origami in existence.

The paper I now use the most is two layers tissue paper glued together with methyl cellulose. This paper is thin, strong, as large as I want and holds its form perfectly. In the end you can moisten some points and make them thinner and harder. That's especially useful for thin appendages like insect legs, rose stems or unicorn horns.

angrydemon · Post by **angrydemon** » March 29th, 2008, 1:22 pm

How did you apply the methyl cellulose to the tissue paper? As far as I know, MC has to be mixed with water. And when you apply it to tissue paper, it gets wet and tears very easily. I know because I tried it before. Very big mess...
Did you spray it on or something?

Post by **origami_8** » March 29th, 2008, 1:44 pm

First you need to place the tissue paper on a flat surface (glass plate). Then you take a soft brush and apply the MC (with a consistency like the white of eggs) on your paper. To do so first make a long stroke on one of the edges of the paper to glue it to the surface. Then work your way from this edge to the other always beginning in the middle of the paper going outwards, smoothing out air bubbles and crinkles.
After you are done let it dry over night or at least a few hours until it is completely dry. Then peel it off and cut it to size.

rdrutel · Post by **rdrutel** » March 30th, 2008, 10:27 pm

I only just started to use tissue foil and I think something to take into consideration is the model itself. Takashi's Aquarius... I found that it didn't produce a model that I liked that much. The water in Aquarius is a layer thin and with so many folds going into such a small area it gets rough and also is not as crisp as paper (the tissue foil being the spray adhesive method). A model like Shibaraku has massive thickness on the top, but not so much on the bottom where the legs are. The tissue foil handled the top easily but the bottom was different. I had to play around with the legs so that the rest wouldn't wiegh down hard and bend them out of shape. I never had issues with precreasing or reversing etc. So that is my minimal input. Include in your decision the structure of the model itself.

ROD

Trebawa · Post by **Trebawa** » April 24th, 2008, 2:00 am

Does anyone know if adhering foil to Kraft paper is an effective technique? I am planning on folding from 36in paper John Szinger's Elephant.

Cupcake · Post by **Cupcake** » April 24th, 2008, 2:24 am

I believe that its been done before. As long as the kraft paper isn't really thick, it should work fine. If foil-backed kami is possible, then anything is possible.

Ondrej.Cibulka · Post by **Ondrej.Cibulka** » April 24th, 2008, 8:19 am

But be carefully. It is very easy to crumple of metal-foil-based paper and it is very bad to view such model.

Post by **TheRealChris** » April 24th, 2008, 12:11 pm

Does anyone know if adhering foil to Kraft paper is an effective technique?

I used foilied kraftpaper for a very long time, but I was only able to create an acceptable paper when I was using spray. every other more fluid glue turned the kraftpaper into a horrible crumbled sheet.
it was always pure joy to fold with foiled kraftpaper
[img]http://freenet-homepage.de/origamichris/bilder/004.jpg[/img]
[img]http://freenet-homepage.de/origamichris/bilder/023.jpg[/img]
[img]http://freenet-homepage.de/origamichris/bilder/014.jpg[/img]

Trebawa · Post by **Trebawa** » April 24th, 2008, 9:43 pm

Nice folds, Chris! Thank you guys so much for the advice. I use a spray adhesive, so my paper should come out fine. I'll post a picture when I get around to folding it.

Ragnar · Post by **Ragnar** » February 20th, 2009, 2:38 am

I am currently trying out different types of paper to see what I personally like best. I would like to try some relatively thin kraft paper, but I don't know where I can buy such a thing. Where can I buy 32 gsm kraft paper?

Thanks.

Post by **origami_8** » February 20th, 2009, 11:30 am

In Nicolas Terry's shop you can buy 28gsm kraft paper, that's pretty close to 32gsm: http://www.origami-shop.com

Ragnar · Post by **Ragnar** » February 20th, 2009, 12:22 pm

Just what I was looking for. Thanks

JeffNYC · Post by **JeffNYC** » February 20th, 2009, 2:17 pm

origami_8 wrote:First you need to place the tissue paper on a flat surface (glass plate). Then you take a soft brush and apply the MC (with a consistency like the white of eggs) on your paper. To do so first make a long stroke on one of the edges of the paper to glue it to the surface. Then work your way from this edge to the other always beginning in the middle of the paper going outwards, smoothing out air bubbles and crinkles.
After you are done let it dry over night or at least a few hours until it is completely dry. Then peel it off and cut it to size.

Can you do this with a spray bottle, like the directions for tissue foil? Also, is this easy to clean off the glass afterwards? Or does one need a dedicated piece of glass for this? What ratio of MC to water?

Post by **origami_8** » February 20th, 2009, 2:39 pm

I haven't tried it with a spray bottle yet, but you may consider that the paper warps out when becoming wet what could lead to wrinkles that you can brush out with a brush, but how do you do with your spay bottle? But it may be possible, you can try it. The Methyl cellulose should be the consistency of albumin. It depends a bit on the brand you use how much is really needed, just look what the instructions on your box say. Usually a spoon of powder on a glass water makes a thick solution. You can make a far thicker solution than you need and add water afterwards. A jam glass works wonderful to prepare your mc, because you just add the powder and the water, shake it, let it rest for a while and shake it again. The remaining solution can be kept in the refrigerator for at least a few months.
For the glass plate: You can use other materials as well as long as the glue doesn't adhere to it you should be fine. Glass has the advantage of being easy to clean with either water or a cheap cleaning agent. A good source are for example frameless picture frames, they are cheap and easy to get. Other possibilities would be for example a laminated wooden plate or in the worst case (not recommendable) to cover your floor/table with aluminium or plastic foil, but in this case you have to be careful that everything is fixed properly and very smooth.