Satoshi Kamiya - Ancient Dragon

Adam · Post by **Adam** » October 16th, 2008, 11:26 am

I'm at my 3d attempt to fold this dragon now, and this time I bought the thinnest paper I could get : 42 g/sm Red Kite Paper. Reversing the creases is a pain in the lower back and it has also caused some inaccuracies, but other than that it works really well.

My only problem is that it looks as if it'll end up being really thick within then next 20 steps ( I'm at step 80 now ). This is why I wasn't able to finish it during my first two attempts.

My question is : Is it inevitable that the model will become really thick during the folding process, or should I get even better paper?
Basicly, I got stuck around step 180 during last attempt because it became impossible to fold the paper properly and preventing it from tearing, so I'm hoping it will work out this time, because I want to give it away as a birthday present next Sunday.

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » October 16th, 2008, 11:57 am

I've folded this model from 1 m square sheet of 70 g/m2 wrapping (craft) paper without problems. It stays steady by itself without any glueing etc. Seems that this proportion of a sheet size and it's thickness is just OK. Well the model really becomes thick in the middle but it's normal for a model of this complexity. Yet it is still foldable (no wet folding!).
So the main question is - how big is your sheet? I assume, that the density of paper is more or less the same, so the 42 g/m2 paper should be thin enough to fold even from 50 cm square (in my proportions (in case density is the same) it should be: 100 cm x 42 g/m2 / 70 g/m2 = 60 сm square).

Adam · Post by **Adam** » October 16th, 2008, 2:46 pm

Well the model really becomes thick in the middle but it's normal for a model of this complexity.

70x70 cm sheet, and it's really thin. I guess the only way to find out whether it's doable is by actually trying it. It's quite thin at the sides, but rather thick in the middle, but I guess that's normal then. Maybe I should even try to complete the earlier failed and unfinished attempts.
I'll try to fold it from 1x1 meter 70 g/sm Kraft next time, to see whether that's easier.

Thanks for your reply.

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » October 16th, 2008, 2:59 pm

You should succeed. Don't think that the model should be thin, even if it "lies flat". If it is 100 layers thick and the paper, say, is 0,1 mm thick, you can easily estimate, that it makes 1 cm. Well, in "perfect" origami paper should be of zero thickness, so you could fold anything, but in the real life that thickness even ads to it and helps to form a 3D shape.
Bottom line: just go for it and be sure of your success!

origami_kid · Post by **origami_kid** » October 20th, 2008, 7:43 pm

Adam, Vykintas73, I would really like to view a picture of your Ancient Dragons

. Can you post one?

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » October 20th, 2008, 8:33 pm

Mine is here:
viewtopic.php?t=79&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=4560

origami_kid · Post by **origami_kid** » October 21st, 2008, 6:02 pm

Very nice Vykintas73 I must say.. the 70 gsm paper of 1mX1m was ok for pretty good details on the head.
Still I must say that for details on the feet, especially the claws, I think one must have a better paper, like tissue treated with MC, to stay stiff at the end.

Here is mine ( the third time I fold it) from 50X50 cm mullberry(20-30 gsm) treated with MC:

[img]http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/54/44/13/ancien14.jpg[/img]
(In the background on my laptop is a picture of the original Ancient Dragon by the master Satoshi)

[img]http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/54/44/13/ancien15.jpg[/img]
(There's only so much detail one can do with a 50cm square)

[img]http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/54/44/13/ancien16.jpg[/img]
(I like the tail best

)

[img]http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/54/44/13/ancien17.jpg[/img]
(A little detail)

[img]http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/54/44/13/ancien18.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/54/44/13/ancien19.jpg[/img]

Sorry for posting so much pictures, but I'm really proud of this 3rd attemp on folding the Ancient Dragon.I really tried my best to fold it very good and I worked alot on the details(and I'm still not satisfied).
I need a bigger square if I want to make better details.
What can a guy do? Keep folding...

Adam · Post by **Adam** » October 26th, 2008, 5:34 pm

First proper attempt at folding this model. I have to say that this model is surprisingly 'easy' to fold. It's only the thickness of the paper that makes it a lot harder. This was made from 100 x 100 cm kraft paper ( ~80 g/sm ). My previous 'attempts' only failed due to the horrible paper: Gift paper and kite paper simply aren't suitable for such a complex model. It was a nightmare trying to fold accurately using kite paper, because the paper is very slippery.

I gave it away as a birthday and anniversary present to my girlfriend right after I finished it. Didn't really have enough time to shape it, but it still looks great for a first attempt, I think. I'm not that pleased with the legs, but it was impossible to make them longer, because then the dragon wouldn't stand on his own feet at all.

I'm going to try to obtain some large sheets of tissue paper or perhaps japanese silk and some Methyl Cellulose and I'll try to fold it again then.

Took me about 15 hours to fold it, of which only about 1 hour was spent on shaping it. This is why the wings and the legs look like rather bad and why the tail isn't curved as much as I would like.

By the way, this model is the reason why I started doing Origami. After folding a swan I googled for some Origami images and one of the first hits showed Kamiya's work. I was so impressed that I decided that I would fold this Dragon some day.

angrydemon · Post by **angrydemon** » October 26th, 2008, 5:48 pm

Kraft paper models always end up looking like crap unless you size the paper first. When you get some MC, put them on your fingers and reshape the model. You'll be surprised how good it will look. If I were you, I wouldn't have given it to my girlfriend so quickly...

You took 15 hours to fold it??

Adam · Post by **Adam** » October 26th, 2008, 6:16 pm

I wasn't able to get some MC in time. I was already late in giving this present, so I didn't really want to keep her waiting much longer. I told her that I wasn't able to finish shaping it, but she loved it anyway and said it wasn't necessary. Other than that, I really like the way Kraft Paper looks. I think it looks a hundred times better than tissue foil or similar papers, because it's not a giant wrinkly mess.

It may have been a bit less than 15 hours; Could've been about 13 or 14. I didn't really measure how long it took me to fold it, but it was definitely more than 12 hours. I took my time to fold everything precisely, because this is a gift, after all. Took me over one and a half hours to get to step 30, I think. Some of the precreasing steps were a pain in the lower back ( litterly ) and I just wanted to do everything right.

The picture I uploaded looks really bad and unclear, but I had to use the camera in my phone and wasn't able to make a better one, due to bad lighting.

origami_kid · Post by **origami_kid** » October 26th, 2008, 10:43 pm

I attempted to fold the dragon 4 times, and I succeded only 3 out of 4.
I tried with normal paper, kozo and mullberry (treated with MC and non-treated) and the mullberry treated with MC is the best recipe.
Sipho Mabona has an excelent Ancient Dragon folded from mullberry paper with MC.The result is mind blowing.

origami street racer · November 8th, 2008, 2:18 am

This is my ancient dragon

calvin46689 · Post by **calvin46689** » November 15th, 2008, 5:29 am

takwing wrote:
psycoblast wrote:If I can't find tissue paper that is as large as at least 50x50cm, can I slightly overlap and glue it on all together to make it 50x50???
That should be fine. I know people are doing this to make paper of size 2m x 2m

Sorry for getting off topic, but I have a piece of advice:

If you're REALLY lazy like me, and even if you aren't that experienced but want to fold some of S.K.'s models (also like me), you can use this site that my friend found. It's called PosterPrinter. What it does is you give it an image, the program blows it up to a specified size, and prints it out on multiple pieces of paper. This way, I can do relatively thick models like S.K's Phoenix with copy paper. Here is the link.

http://www.mephzara.com/freezone/freezone_e.php

Look around on this site, and download PosterPrinter for free. I find that it comes in VERY handy. Who knows, if somebody has the CP for Ryu-jin, they could potentially do it quite easily (other than the scales, of course). And if you have photoshop or some other basic image editing software, I would recommend lowering the opacity of the CP lines to make them very light. Then it would look like you were folding the models with good ol' references and tedious sequences. I already tricked my aunt with my Bahamut BL this way =D

Froy · Post by **Froy** » November 17th, 2008, 6:56 pm

Folded in the first try... yes !!!

I think that the paper was 70x70 cm.

chesslo · Post by **chesslo** » November 17th, 2008, 7:59 pm

wow, very good for first try!

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Satoshi Kamiya - Ancient Dragon

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