this is about... my 5th attempt at diagramming origami.
It still surprises me with how precise the angles have to be to make it all flow.
please point out typos/things that could be made clearer/missed bits/unicorns
Thanks
I appriciate it!Critique my diagramming?
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Critique my diagramming?
[img]http://paper-brain.com/origami/oribut.PNG[/img]
this is about... my 5th attempt at diagramming origami.
It still surprises me with how precise the angles have to be to make it all flow.
please point out typos/things that could be made clearer/missed bits/unicorns
Thanks I appriciate it!
this is about... my 5th attempt at diagramming origami.
It still surprises me with how precise the angles have to be to make it all flow.
please point out typos/things that could be made clearer/missed bits/unicorns
Thanks
I appriciate it!-
Sara
- Senior Member
- Posts: 285
- Joined: January 25th, 2008, 9:18 am
- Location: Munich, Germany
- Contact:
Hm, so you're diagramming a butterfly by Toshikazu Kawasaki? What's the motivation? Also, from previous correspondence with Kawasaki-san, I doubt that you've asked for his permission.
As to the diagrams, I prefer the styles that Robert Lang / Satoshi Kamiya and the sort use. The arrow for "Turn over" looks like a rotate arrow. You mix dash-dash (valley) and dash-dot-dash (mountain, though that is usually dash-dot-dot-dash) randomly, which I can see no sense in. And the inside reverse fold in particular looks so complicated and you succeeded in confusing me ("Is this not a simple inside reverse fold after all?"). I've found that studying diagrams I find very clear help me decide on how to diagram a model.
Hope this helps, even if it's not high praise,
-- Sara
As to the diagrams, I prefer the styles that Robert Lang / Satoshi Kamiya and the sort use. The arrow for "Turn over" looks like a rotate arrow. You mix dash-dash (valley) and dash-dot-dash (mountain, though that is usually dash-dot-dot-dash) randomly, which I can see no sense in. And the inside reverse fold in particular looks so complicated and you succeeded in confusing me ("Is this not a simple inside reverse fold after all?"). I've found that studying diagrams I find very clear help me decide on how to diagram a model.
Hope this helps, even if it's not high praise,
-- Sara
That helps a lot, thanks!
The motivation... well, I'm applying to get in at a graphics design course at college and I need to make a portfolio. I wanted to include an example of my origami diagramming that I actully like so i chose to make this one. The model is one of my all time favourites...
You are right, the turn over arrow looks look like the rotate arrow, that i will make sure to change! I did wonder why it was bothering me ;_;
I did feel the fold dash dot system was too complicated as most of the fold are valley folds anyway... i will see what i can do about that.
I made the inside reverse fold part purely with the beginner origamist in mind... Is there any way i can go about explaining it without just saying 'inside reverse fold?'
I appriciate this a lot!
Edit// I changed the turn over arrows and the Line styles for valley/Mountain fold.
Still unsure as to what i can do about the inside reverse thing. Any suggestions?
The motivation... well, I'm applying to get in at a graphics design course at college and I need to make a portfolio. I wanted to include an example of my origami diagramming that I actully like so i chose to make this one. The model is one of my all time favourites...
You are right, the turn over arrow looks look like the rotate arrow, that i will make sure to change! I did wonder why it was bothering me ;_;
I did feel the fold dash dot system was too complicated as most of the fold are valley folds anyway... i will see what i can do about that.
I made the inside reverse fold part purely with the beginner origamist in mind... Is there any way i can go about explaining it without just saying 'inside reverse fold?'
I appriciate this a lot!
Edit// I changed the turn over arrows and the Line styles for valley/Mountain fold.
Still unsure as to what i can do about the inside reverse thing. Any suggestions?
Diagramming models can be tedious and time-consuming, so my compliments for your patience.
Suggestions:
1. Number all pictures - left to right, up to down, in this style.
2. As Sara suggested, follow the diagramming standard ... which was developed about 40 years ago.
3. I agree with Sara, assume that beginning folders understand the basics - so saying "inside reverse fold" is usually clear. Some diagrammers just say "reverse fold" for the inside reverse fold. But, also use the arrowhead and mountain fold to indicate it.
4. I like your attempt at substeps, and I'd suggest that you number the circles something like 13a, 13b, 13c, 13d, and so on [Just don't do it for the common steps - altho you might do a pre-tutorial.]
5. Don't put words on top of the diagram, it hurts the readability. Also, I greatly prefer solid letters, rather than unfilled letters.
6. I like the indication of back and front by color. But, I get confused with 3 colors - red, white, and gray. I think I understand what you're trying to to convey... but it is not part of the Standard, so select one color - gray or white, only... in addition to red.
7. I've seen diagrams that use gray for the white side. As long as it is consistent, I don't have a preference.
BTW, if you decide that you like to diagram, I'm sure that there are lots of folks on the Forum who like to design that would appreciate your help...
- Hank Simon
Suggestions:
1. Number all pictures - left to right, up to down, in this style.
2. As Sara suggested, follow the diagramming standard ... which was developed about 40 years ago.
3. I agree with Sara, assume that beginning folders understand the basics - so saying "inside reverse fold" is usually clear. Some diagrammers just say "reverse fold" for the inside reverse fold. But, also use the arrowhead and mountain fold to indicate it.
4. I like your attempt at substeps, and I'd suggest that you number the circles something like 13a, 13b, 13c, 13d, and so on [Just don't do it for the common steps - altho you might do a pre-tutorial.]
5. Don't put words on top of the diagram, it hurts the readability. Also, I greatly prefer solid letters, rather than unfilled letters.
6. I like the indication of back and front by color. But, I get confused with 3 colors - red, white, and gray. I think I understand what you're trying to to convey... but it is not part of the Standard, so select one color - gray or white, only... in addition to red.
7. I've seen diagrams that use gray for the white side. As long as it is consistent, I don't have a preference.
BTW, if you decide that you like to diagram, I'm sure that there are lots of folks on the Forum who like to design that would appreciate your help...
- Hank Simon
Look forward to it, chances are you'll get the 6th attempt before my textiles teacher gets her homework...Whitefly wrote:If T. Kawasaki realizes that further to have diagrammed without permission,you have diagrammed in a so Barbaric way his butterfly, I would not know what it could happen.
Don't worry i am just joking and waiting for the 6th attempt!
Mario
ThanksHankSimon wrote:Diagramming models can be tedious and time-consuming, so my compliments for your patience.
i rather enjoyed it actully1- Yes, that is the solution. I hate the way it's so cluttered and the order isn't clear.
2- That would make sense! Would you mind pointing out any places where i haven't followed it? I will get my books out to compare though.
3- So if... instead of "Tuck inside" i put "inside reverse fold" and change the first diagram to have a mountain fold... should i bother with the pull apart and push in bit?
4- Good idea. Would the substeps mean the pull apart and push in bit?
5- Okay, it shouldn't be too hard making room for that.
6- Heh, i only remembered last minute to include that - i'm glad i did!
I'll see how it looks without the grey - it was to indicate levels but perhaps they are indicated enough without it.
7- I will make sure to improve that.
8- That is a brilliant idea! Then again, i would have to make sure i can actully fold the design myself before diagramming it. I'm not particularly good at origami and can't figure out crease patterns... but i would like to practice diagramming 3D models.
Thanks for all this help!
Edit: I did suggestions 6, half of 3 and 5. I want to do suggestions 1 and 4 soon, but i'm still unhappy with how cluttered it is...
One step at a time...
1. Place the numbers before the text... as in this list - takes up no space.
Leave the clutter for the moment, fix it in the 7th attempt.
2. Make the suggested changes, and we'll see what else to fix.
3. In fact, just "reverse fold" with the Mountain Fold... AND arrow head.
If you remove the substeps, it will be less cluttered.
4. Yes, I inferred that the circled steps were substeps. For practice purposes, you could move the 4 circled substeps to the end like an appendix, labelled as I suggested.
5. ...
6. Try White or Gray - but rely on your own opinion for which you like better and shows up better.
7....
...8..... Keep practicing your folding to get better. One terrific advantage of diagramming is that you gain a certain insight into common patterns of use and sequencing. You may also get a better feeling for other people's style.... Kind of like writing out sheet music before you play
- Hank Simon
1. Place the numbers before the text... as in this list - takes up no space.
Leave the clutter for the moment, fix it in the 7th attempt.
2. Make the suggested changes, and we'll see what else to fix.
3. In fact, just "reverse fold" with the Mountain Fold... AND arrow head.
If you remove the substeps, it will be less cluttered.
4. Yes, I inferred that the circled steps were substeps. For practice purposes, you could move the 4 circled substeps to the end like an appendix, labelled as I suggested.
5. ...
6. Try White or Gray - but rely on your own opinion for which you like better and shows up better.
7....
...8..... Keep practicing your folding to get better. One terrific advantage of diagramming is that you gain a certain insight into common patterns of use and sequencing. You may also get a better feeling for other people's style.... Kind of like writing out sheet music before you play
- Hank Simon
Much cleaner and easier to read.
Now, the proof is to find someone local who can do a little Origami, and ask them to follow the directions while you watch. Very gently and respectfully tell them that you want to know where they make mistakes in the process, so that you can improve the diagrams to make them clearer. This means that you have to apologize and not answer questions when they don't understand - at first.
When it is clear to you why the don't understand, then you can make notes and help them along to the next step. Many people may feel self-conscious that you are testing their ability, rather than the readability of the instructions, so try to be sensitive to this.
Also, if they are interested, you might take the time afterwards to show them how to fold it correctly all the way through.... if they can't follow the instructions.
- Keep it up, We need more people who are willing to diagram.
- Hank Simon
Now, the proof is to find someone local who can do a little Origami, and ask them to follow the directions while you watch. Very gently and respectfully tell them that you want to know where they make mistakes in the process, so that you can improve the diagrams to make them clearer. This means that you have to apologize and not answer questions when they don't understand - at first.
When it is clear to you why the don't understand, then you can make notes and help them along to the next step. Many people may feel self-conscious that you are testing their ability, rather than the readability of the instructions, so try to be sensitive to this.
Also, if they are interested, you might take the time afterwards to show them how to fold it correctly all the way through.... if they can't follow the instructions.
- Keep it up, We need more people who are willing to diagram.
- Hank Simon
![[img]http://paper-brain.com/origami/oribut.PNG[/img]](http://paper-brain.com/origami/origamibutterfly.jpeg){kind=link}
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Sara
- Senior Member
- Posts: 285
- Joined: January 25th, 2008, 9:18 am
- Location: Munich, Germany
- Contact:
I think the diagrams have much improved since your first version. I like that you moved the detailed steps for the reverse fold to the footnotes. While I think the diagrams are harder to read than some others out there, I think you did a decent job.
Letting inexperienced people attempt the model will be very good, and hopefully most will succeed in finishing the model without any hints or help from your side.
Finally, I think the diagrams looks a bit too cramped for my taste. But then again, it's your portfolio.
-- Sara
Letting inexperienced people attempt the model will be very good, and hopefully most will succeed in finishing the model without any hints or help from your side.
Finally, I think the diagrams looks a bit too cramped for my taste. But then again, it's your portfolio.
-- Sara
I agree with Sara about the cramping, but think that the instructions are relatively clear for testing purposes, while you're re-editing. As you watch the testers fumble and look to you for clarification (try not to help them the first time through), you'll learn much faster what works and what doesn't... as well as ways to improve, as you keep an open mind to communicating your intent to the folder.
We desperately need more people who are good at diagramming and enjoy it.... I think that they are a smaller minority than even good designers !
I am confident that after you get a little more comfortable with the standards and the process that you'll be able to learn from the Masters and perhaps join their ranks...
- Hank Simon
We desperately need more people who are good at diagramming and enjoy it.... I think that they are a smaller minority than even good designers !
I am confident that after you get a little more comfortable with the standards and the process that you'll be able to learn from the Masters and perhaps join their ranks...
- Hank Simon