MC & Tissue Paper "Wetness"

[dinogami]

Hi All! -

After reading about it for a long time, and reading quite a bit about it on this forum, I've finally taken the dive into using methyl cellulose and various papers...and now I don't know how I ever folded anything without it! Everyone that has discussed this topic on the forum deserves a LOT of my thanks for all your advice on how to do it!

I do have a question, though: in addition to experimenting with unryu, mulberry, and some other papers, I've been trying to make two-ply sheets of different colors on either side with Blick's non-bleeding art tissue. When wet, of course, it gets a bit transparent, particularly the lighter colors. Being non-bleeding, I'm not concerned about that. However, in all of my attempts thus far, when the second layer is laid on the first one, one color -- the lighter one -- gets patches, blotches, and streaks here and there that become permanently wet-looking -- the other color from below shows through. So I don't end up with a nice sheet of two clean colors on either side. Any suggestions on how to do this better and avoid this problem? Or is it something inherent to tissue paper? Is it a factor of when the second layer is applied (e.g., immediately after the first is MC'd, after the first is entirely dry, etc.)? Thanks so much for your help!

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I think this is simply a combination of the paper being both thin and porous. The MC seeps through the top layer of tissue in places, turning it translucent...and causing the bottom layer of tissue to show through...I've had the best results using two similar colors. The best advice I can give you is to use the color bleeding to your advantage...It looks pretty great made into an insect (I'm using some where a deep maroon bled through a minty green to make a flying walking stick right now...and it looks quite nice). Something else to consider...the darker, and more similar the colors you use, the less evident this effect will be.

[Pixion]

I think it has to do with the fact that the tissue is non-bleeding. I tried this as well and to me it seems that non-bleed tissue is somehwat 'hydrophobic', i.e. it is more difficult to soak it with MC.

One way of dealing with this is trying to squeeze the MC into the double tissue by using a roller or your hands to 'push' the viscous MS into the tissue.

It worked for me but took quite a lot more time than preparing bleeding double tissue.

Another approach, which I haven't tried is a layer of non-bleed (dark color) on the bottom and a layer of bleeding tissue on the top (light color). Theoretically this could work for a light/dark color combo.

[WhisperPuffin]

That happens to me when I use too much MC. Maybe that's your problem.

[dinogami]

That happens to me when I use too much MC. Maybe that's your problem.

I've wondered about that...I'm trying to be conservative in the application, but I guess I'm still learning exactly how much on a brush is too little and how much is too much! I also try to go over the sheet after applying the MC and even out or eliminate any "pools" of MC that form, but some form long after I'm done, too, and these little patches seem to take longer to dry than the rest (which is, circularly, how I know they were pools). I haven't noticed a marked correlation between the pools and the blotches on the second sheet, though...not that they don't exist, but I haven't noticed them. I'm using a recipe of 1 tablespoon of MC powder to 1 cup water; the result is very viscous and flows very slowly; occasionally it's almost Vaseline consistency...is this correct?

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You dont want a vaseline consistency. That's too thick. Go watch the first ten minutes of Ghostbusters...the slime that's coming out of the card catalog is the perfect consistency (and is also made out of MC, for the record)

You might also go to http://www.happyfolding.com, and watch Sara's video on making double tissue. Watch when she pours the MC, and you will see the approximate consistency you need.

[Pixion]

The viscosity of MC should be similar to honey and be relatively easily to apply using a brush. Also, it should be colorless (transparent) and not contain lumps etc.

Typically, the weight fraction is about 1-5% (i.e. 1-5 grams of MC powder / 100 grams of water). If you add the MC powder to cold water, normally clumps will form, but is you mix vigorously, they will go (but then you will have to let the airbubbles you entrapped rise out overnight).

A trick that I use is to heat the water to about 70- 80 degrees C and then add the MC using a mixer/blender. At this temperature, MC will not 'hydrate' (i.e. adsorb water and form a hydrogel) but stay in the liquid as tiny MC particles. The liquid will have a viscosity like water, but have a white cloud (due to the un-hydrated MC particles).

Upon cooling, the MC will hydrate and form a hydrogel (the viscosity will increase). Typically I will leave it for a couple of hours or a bight in the fridge.

[dinogami]

Ah! I had been concerned that my MC was too thick...! Many thanks for the tips on that! May I safely assume that adding more water to what I have (and mixing thoroughly) will help thin it out?

Thanks also for the link to Sara's site -- I was completely unaware of it, but am happy to add it to my list of bookmarks and RSS feeds! I note in the video you mentioned that she has MC that has the honey/egg white-ish consistency, but then she thins it down a bit with water -- is that also a good idea? Or is that a function of her using wallpaper paste rather than pure MC?

[Pixion]

Yes, when your MC is too thick, just add water and mix.

You can experiment with different concentrations of MC to get different levels of 'crispness' of the paper. Typically, the more MC, the more stiff, crisp and stronger the paper becomes. Sometimes you want something very crisp, sometimes not, depending on the model and the paper you start with. Its all part of learning the art.

Also note that there can be differences in brands of MC (the molecular weight of the MC 'molecule' can be different, giving different results for viscosity and crispness). Nothing to worry about, just to bear in mind...

[The Average Folder]

Michael Lafosse and Robert Lang recommend about a egg-white consistency. I use that and it works out perfect!

[Hellome360]

Hi, I have a question. I have now made double tissue twice, and it has come out perfectly. One problem i have though is that it is very difficult to reversecreases. Is this something to do with my tissue paper (just standard bleeding tissue) or is it something else?

[Hellome360]

* reverse creases

[origami_8]

First of, there is an edit Button on the top right of your post, you can use it to edit your posts.

Second, to reverse creases on double tissue, flatten the crease from the mountain fold side and then carefully turn it over into a valley fold. Good luck.

[Hellome360]

Thanks for the speedy reply, but I was talking about double tissue made with methylcellulose. I already make my tissue foil with white glue

[origami_8]

Yes sorry I noticed and edited it after I wrote it but obviously too late.

Non the less turning creases over works best when flattening them from the mountain fold side first. On double tissue Creases usually turn over easily for me and I most often use bleeding tissue paper.