Satoshi Kamiya - Ancient Dragon

RollerCoasterBug · Post by **RollerCoasterBug** » May 11th, 2010, 12:12 am

the flap does not open, pretend ther is no flap in the way. As soon as I get my camera to work, I'll post pics.

lexsusman_wow · Post by **lexsusman_wow** » May 11th, 2010, 1:18 am

hey i don't get step 42, what corner am i supposed to fold and how?????? tnx in advance

RollerCoasterBug · Post by **RollerCoasterBug** » May 12th, 2010, 4:16 am

lexsusman_wow, first, to understand step 42, you need to pay attention to how many flaps ore being folded over in step 41. In 41, you need to fold the one big triangular flap over, and then you will see the big middle flap that you just did an open sink in step 40. open one of those layers, and squash fold what's inside. I hope this helps.

Hydraxon493 · Post by **Hydraxon493** » May 14th, 2010, 3:42 pm

Friet wrote:
pnpurdue wrote:I was wondering what paper size should I use for this dragon? I tried a 25cmx25cm but got too thick and small :-/ so it became unworkable. Thanks
The book recommends using paper of atleast 50x50 cm.
I used 50x50 cm kraft paper which wasn't very thin, and found it too thick to work with in the end. So I'd suggest you find some bigger stuff. Maybe you can find a big roll of giftwrap paper (those are usually about 70 cm wide), and as thin as possible ofcourse.

I laugh in your faces.
Not to be, rude of course.
I have had an extended success in this model with 10" (25cm) Japanese foil from OrigamiUSA. Turns out surprisingly well-made, the foil is very malleable and you can shape it more in the final steps of the head, wings and tail.
My 77cm square of giftwrap dragon did NOT turn out well, just folded it plainly (no methyl-cellulose or wet-folding). Maybe it would turn out better if you used one of those methods...

RollerCoasterBug · Post by **RollerCoasterBug** » May 16th, 2010, 6:54 pm

Trust me on this, Hydraxon493, you do NOT want to use wrapping paper for the ancient dragon. After pre-creasing, everything starts to rip, and/or it won't stay in a polite position when creating the base.

save your self some time, and please consider a differeng paper.

Hydraxon493 · Post by **Hydraxon493** » May 17th, 2010, 12:24 pm

Quite true, really.
I tried it before this post, and I see your point. I would NOT recommend using giftwrap for this.
I don't really get why people insist on having a huge paper to fold this with.
Sure, it makes it look good, but what if you just want to get the model done?
I would recommend...
(drumroll)
10" Japanese foil from OrigamiUSA.
Sounds stupid, but it works.
As a matter of fact, i just finished my third dragon with this in silver, looks great, photos on my flickr, link in signature.
(End of ramble)

joshuaorigami · Post by **joshuaorigami** » May 17th, 2010, 3:49 pm

i folded two dragons ages ago with 29x29 cm tissue foil. they did look good but then they got squashed in a box full of origami's!

Hydraxon493 · Post by **Hydraxon493** » May 18th, 2010, 8:03 am

Try with some Japanese 10" foil. Looks great, varying colours.
Gets a bit small, though.
But just keep folding!
You can skip a lot of the thinning moves around step 140, still works.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » May 18th, 2010, 10:29 am

Hydraxon493 wrote:Try with some Japanese 10" foil. Looks great, varying colours.

No it doesn't. Really. It does not look good when folded from tiny foil. It ends up looking like a crumpled mess.

A proper way to practice the model is to tape together multiple sheets of Kami, to make a larger sheet. Once you're confident enough about your skills you should try folding it with Kozo, mulberry or some other proper looking paper - not tissue foil, however.

Hydraxon493 · Post by **Hydraxon493** » May 18th, 2010, 12:29 pm

Adam wrote:
Hydraxon493 wrote:Try with some Japanese 10" foil. Looks great, varying colours.
No it doesn't. Really. It does not look good when folded from tiny foil. It ends up looking like a crumpled mess.

Obviously, you haven't tried it.
I once saw someone on this forum who folded it from 11" handmade tissue foil.
Beat that.
I did.
What you need to do is fold it at least once every three days, until you have pretty much memorized teh folding sequence.
Just find little ways to remember it, and you should be golden.
Then, have at least five hours on your hands, sit down and fold.
I don't know about you, but I think that it looks just as good folded from basic paper than folded with a terrific 40cm square of Origamido or tissue foil or tant or whatever.
Just try it and see.
And make every fold as neat as possible. It will "un-neaten" around step 120-130. Just keep folding.
Didn't look good in photos.
But does look good.
(end of ramble against person against folding with foil)
Oh, and shame on you for saying "proper-looking paper". I have spoken with several people on this forum who have folded it from 45cm Kraft.
Still looks good.

Post by **origami_8** » May 18th, 2010, 1:36 pm

And that from someone who's pictures are so blurry that you hardly can make out that it shall be a dragon....

Adam · Post by **Adam** » May 18th, 2010, 1:58 pm

You seem to be under the impression that Origami is some sort of contest in which people are expected to fold from increasingly small sheets of paper. I regret to inform you that this is not the case. It's about making art, and for this model it is the goal to create a beautifully complex dragon. The diagrams guide you in the process of making a dragon -not Jeremy Shafer's rock. There is absolutely no point in memorizing these diagrams, unless you want to set some sort of speed record for folding this model - which, again, is not exactly the purpose of Origami.

I don't know about you, but I think that it looks just as good folded from basic paper than folded with a terrific 40cm square of Origamido or tissue foil or tant or whatever.

I hope you're joking. You're honestly saying tissue foil looks as good as Origamido...? Gee, I guess LaFosse has been wasting his time then!

Oh, and shame on you for saying "proper-looking paper". I have spoken with several people on this forum who have folded it from 45cm Kraft.
Still looks good.

Sure, it can look fine - certainly better than tissue foil - but it could look so much better when made from proper looking paper. Kraft can be suitable for many models, but it definitely isn't the best choice.

Choosing the right paper makes a lot of difference; It can either make a model look like a statue or bring it to life.

bethnor · Post by **bethnor** » May 18th, 2010, 6:23 pm

of course it is possible to fold the dragon from increasingly smaller pieces of paper. there are multiple folders on the forums who have done so (myself not included). IMHO, this model benefits from having some "stature." the small dragons are "cute." it's fine if joseph wu's warai looks "cute," but IMHO the ancient dragon should not look "cute."

Ben385 · Post by **Ben385** » May 18th, 2010, 6:49 pm

Hey Hydraxon, I found this photo kinda trippy

Aside from all that fun, I gotta agree with the others. I could fold the ancient dragon, sure, but. And this is a big but. I want it to look fantastic!

Therefore, I play the waiting game. I wait for the right paper, the time when I feel my skill level is good enough, and when I really have the time.

These things really make a difference to your finished result.

origamimasterjared · Post by **origamimasterjared** » May 18th, 2010, 9:01 pm

Here's Shuki's from a 6 inch square of origami paper: http://www.flickr.com/photos/origami-ar ... 117291589/

All right, now that you're beat, onto the point.

Hey, my first fold of Kamiya's Ancient Dragon was some years ago from the CP, from a 6 inch square of foil. And I thought it was pretty darn good. And it was! Very few people had actually succeeded in folding it, and the photo in the old Tanteidan magazine was so bad you couldn't tell what needed to be done. It was terrible compared to what people are doing now from the diagrams though.

Take a look at: http://www.folders.jp/cgi-bin/jn/joyful.cgi

Are you telling me you can't see a difference between the dragons shown there? Some don't stick out to you as better folded than others?

First, generally when you fold complex stuff from foil, you should fold with the foil side in, so that the finished fold comes out white. This is because the foil side tends to crack, and the shine, cracks, and creases look horrible in photos. It is also better for compressing layers.

Unless your paper is super thin, larger paper is needed for the legs and horns. Mainly the legs. A basic rule of thumb in origami is that you want your flaps to be wider than they are thick. If you fold from too small a sheet, you will have a problem with this. The horns and legs become extremely thick.

Also, the more like a paper the paper you fold with is, the neater your folds will be. Giant squares of origami paper will allow you to make all the folds neat, but it won't be able to hold its shape, and it will probably develop lots of tears. In fact, a 50 square of origami paper (four 25 cm squares taped together) is probably a very good practice square). Kraft paper as well can be a good practice paper, as long as you have the right kinds. Check out Cecilia's from Kraft paper: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cecilia13101/4565459461/ Still think yours is better?

This is meant not as an insult to you, just some suggestions, information and examples you may find helpful. Another piece of advice is to stay away from black backgrounds. They're really hard to photograph.

And for good measure, here's a Bahamut I folded from printer paper a while back: http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1507/dscn2602.jpg