Has anyone got any experience selling origami online, using tools such as ebay or paypal?
I ask as I have made a few of my silver dragon models as presents in the past, and have the process of folding down to about an hour, excluding foilbacking and painting. I could probably do a few at once in an afternoon.
http://www.fishgoth.com/origami/photos/ ... ragon1.jpg
http://www.fishgoth.com/origami/photos/ ... ragon2.jpg
http://www.fishgoth.com/origami/photos/ ... ragon3.jpg
If I sold 12" long versions of these, boxed them and sold them with a 'limited edition' certificate and folding instructions, how much do you reckon people would pay for them? How much, hypothetically, would you pay for it?
Please note : I AM NOT SELLING OR ADVERTISING MODELS IN THIS POST! Please don't email me asking for the models (or the diagrams). I'm trying to get an idea of whether anyone has any experience selling online, and how much dosh people reckon could be made.
Cheers,
Stephen
Selling origami online - anyone got any experience?
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Selling origami online - anyone got any experience?
I once set up an origami PLC. But the business folded.
Of note, looking about a bit, I came across one of Brian Chan's pieces:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7388703827
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7388703827
I once set up an origami PLC. But the business folded.
You will find plenty of informations here :
viewtopic.php?p=7197
viewtopic.php?p=7022
viewtopic.php?p=7037
viewtopic.php?p=6421
viewtopic.php?p=3606
viewtopic.php?p=541
But be ready to be dispointed, for many people, paper is paper.
Just 3 weeks ago, one of my friends asked me :
-But why don't you sell your origamis ? You can make some money by selling that.
-OK, why one do you want, it's 10£
-Errr ... I don't need any of these but... maybe some people ...
viewtopic.php?p=7197
viewtopic.php?p=7022
viewtopic.php?p=7037
viewtopic.php?p=6421
viewtopic.php?p=3606
viewtopic.php?p=541
But be ready to be dispointed, for many people, paper is paper.
Just 3 weeks ago, one of my friends asked me :
-But why don't you sell your origamis ? You can make some money by selling that.
-OK, why one do you want, it's 10£
-Errr ... I don't need any of these but... maybe some people ...
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TheRealChris
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that's a very common question. but not very easy to answer. there's surely a difference between selling your own designs and models from other designers (even with the price)
my experience with selling origami is, that only marketing companies or sort of are really willing to pay good money for a good model. I mean why should I sell a model for 5 Euro on which I folded for 3 Hours? that would be less than 2 Euros per hour and the paper is not inkluded. so selling origami at ebay would be pretty effordless, because most people would say "nice" but wouldn't spend money on it.
my experience with selling origami is, that only marketing companies or sort of are really willing to pay good money for a good model. I mean why should I sell a model for 5 Euro on which I folded for 3 Hours? that would be less than 2 Euros per hour and the paper is not inkluded. so selling origami at ebay would be pretty effordless, because most people would say "nice" but wouldn't spend money on it.
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rockmanex6
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TheRealChris
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I am not quite sure how to interpret 'fix head and wing little'. They've turned out exactly as I planned them. If you'd prefer Kamiya Satoshi style claws, batwings, etc, then I can add a few strip grafts, and about 2 hours folding time, which I'm not really interested in. 
I once set up an origami PLC. But the business folded.
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mleonard
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I tried selling a couple of pieces on Ebay a while ago - I didn't put much effort into promoting them, I was just testing the water... Anyway, results: 1 enquiry, no bids.
If Brian Chan sold his piece on Ebay for $15.00, and the paper cost him $8.00, that means he got $7.00 for his time and his skill... doesn't seem like a good return to me...
The only pieces I have sold have been to people who approached me, rather than me trying to sell to them (if you see what I mean). I've only ever sold one piece to a private citizen, but marketing/advertising companies are used to dealing with creative types and will (sometimes) pay a reasonable rate if they recognise the amount of work that goes into something. But Joseph Wu will be able to tell you much more about this side of things than I can.
When it comes to pricing your work, you should remember that your time is worth a lot of money. Start with the hourly rate you make as a doctor - it's up to you whether you think an hour's worth of folding should pay more or less than this, but it should be in the same ballpark, at least.
Pricing your work too low is pointless - origami is never going to have mass market appeal. Far better to price it too high... Put a price tag of $15.00 dollars on an origami rose, and it's just a piece of paper. Put a price tag of $1500.00 on it and it's a work of art...
I'm quite serious here. For a while now I have been thinking (in a vague sort of way) about how to promote origami as fine art. But I think it starts with us - if we undervalue our own work, then no one else is going to value it properly either. I've decide that from now on I will give my work away, or else sell it for several hundred dollars - nothing in between...
If Brian Chan sold his piece on Ebay for $15.00, and the paper cost him $8.00, that means he got $7.00 for his time and his skill... doesn't seem like a good return to me...
The only pieces I have sold have been to people who approached me, rather than me trying to sell to them (if you see what I mean). I've only ever sold one piece to a private citizen, but marketing/advertising companies are used to dealing with creative types and will (sometimes) pay a reasonable rate if they recognise the amount of work that goes into something. But Joseph Wu will be able to tell you much more about this side of things than I can.
When it comes to pricing your work, you should remember that your time is worth a lot of money. Start with the hourly rate you make as a doctor - it's up to you whether you think an hour's worth of folding should pay more or less than this, but it should be in the same ballpark, at least.
Pricing your work too low is pointless - origami is never going to have mass market appeal. Far better to price it too high... Put a price tag of $15.00 dollars on an origami rose, and it's just a piece of paper. Put a price tag of $1500.00 on it and it's a work of art...
I'm quite serious here. For a while now I have been thinking (in a vague sort of way) about how to promote origami as fine art. But I think it starts with us - if we undervalue our own work, then no one else is going to value it properly either. I've decide that from now on I will give my work away, or else sell it for several hundred dollars - nothing in between...
Thats why I chose the silver dragon model - this is one of my top end models, presented as a 'limited edition' design. If I flogged any kami models, I don't think that I'd get too much.
The 'what you can make as a doctor' line is interesting. I can make about £30-40 per hour doing ENT locum work. However, thats before tax, insurance, fees, travel etc. An afternoon folding is frequently more fun, too
I'm tempted to 'test the water' by adding a 'for sale' section on my website. If I can flog off a few top-end display models, so could anyone!
The 'what you can make as a doctor' line is interesting. I can make about £30-40 per hour doing ENT locum work. However, thats before tax, insurance, fees, travel etc. An afternoon folding is frequently more fun, too
I'm tempted to 'test the water' by adding a 'for sale' section on my website. If I can flog off a few top-end display models, so could anyone!
I once set up an origami PLC. But the business folded.
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rockmanex6
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- Joined: April 27th, 2003, 1:28 am
- Location: Rock n robot!
Well head can be better little, wings ok (you ask sell avice) Fix model
Fishgoth wrote:I am not quite sure how to interpret 'fix head and wing little'. They've turned out exactly as I planned them. If you'd prefer Kamiya Satoshi style claws, batwings, etc, then I can add a few strip grafts, and about 2 hours folding time, which I'm not really interested in.
Many of my friends have asked me why I don't sell some of the models I fold instead of getting some crappy job. When I asked them how much they would be willing to pay for them, and telling them how long it took to make them, they understood why 
The way I see it, if you want to make money on origami, teaching people how to fold or being a brilliant folder and selling unique and astonishing pieces would be the only way to go. Another idea is to start making multi-piece models, which are easier/faster to make and often look better as well. Someone who doesn't know anything about origami probably doesn't know how hard it is to create something from a single square and wouldn't care less if it wasn't made from one piece of paper. I'm all for purist folding, but it's just stupid if you want to make money.
I DO think you could make decent money on that dragon though. It looks good and if you can really fold it in an hour that's pretty amazing However I think providing instructions with the model wouldn't do you much good. Why would someone want to spend money on something that anyone with a bit of patience can make? The fact that art is unique is what makes it worth much more than the materials used to make it.
The way I see it, if you want to make money on origami, teaching people how to fold or being a brilliant folder and selling unique and astonishing pieces would be the only way to go. Another idea is to start making multi-piece models, which are easier/faster to make and often look better as well. Someone who doesn't know anything about origami probably doesn't know how hard it is to create something from a single square and wouldn't care less if it wasn't made from one piece of paper. I'm all for purist folding, but it's just stupid if you want to make money.
I DO think you could make decent money on that dragon though. It looks good and if you can really fold it in an hour that's pretty amazing
However I think providing instructions with the model wouldn't do you much good. Why would someone want to spend money on something that anyone with a bit of patience can make? The fact that art is unique is what makes it worth much more than the materials used to make it.-
Daydreamer
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I'm not a marketing expert by any means, but you might want to consider who your target audience is, what kind of person would like what you have for sale, and concentrate on selling to them.
I can see your lovely dragon, for instance, doing pretty well at a renfair or SCA gathering, maybe at a hobby gaming store and lastly perhaps a music store or musical instrument store that caters to a largely harder rock n roll crowd.
Similarly, if you wanted to try selling them on eBay, you might want to consider adding keywords into your auction listing so your item will come up when someone does a search on one of those keywords, i.e. "renaissance faire", or "fantasy gaming" or "death rock".
Sometimes, a little profiling can be a good thing.
I can see your lovely dragon, for instance, doing pretty well at a renfair or SCA gathering, maybe at a hobby gaming store and lastly perhaps a music store or musical instrument store that caters to a largely harder rock n roll crowd.
Similarly, if you wanted to try selling them on eBay, you might want to consider adding keywords into your auction listing so your item will come up when someone does a search on one of those keywords, i.e. "renaissance faire", or "fantasy gaming" or "death rock".
Sometimes, a little profiling can be a good thing.
Thanks for the further comments.
It is always a puzzle whether any money can be made out of a creative hobby such as origami. In the same way that every painter or potter would want to make money from their work, so would paper-folders. The trick is how to do it. People percieve models made from paper to be of less value than those made from other artistic media. Painting, drybrushing (as my dragon is), glazing, etc can all add to a model, and make it look more of a display piece. However, finding a buyer can be tricky. Rumour suggest that artists such as Eric Joisel can sell a model such as his pangolin for £1000. However, most of us, myself included, do not have his ability.
Everyone on this forum dreams of selling a folding method to someone like NASA, however, that isn't going to happen for most of us. The likes of Robert Lang may be able to understand rocket science, or indeed, the geometry required to unfold a satelite solar panel. I, for one, don't. I can make a comment or two about medicine and surgery. About the biggest innovation that I have come across is a method of folding a sheet of A4 to act as a guide for the angle required in hip surgery, of which the authors were not paid!
Writing books may not be the meal ticket that some may think is, either. I suppose if you are John Montroll, you can make a bit, but for everyone else, books are going to be a labour of love, rather than a money maker. Simply put, there are loads of 'basic origami' books out there for the wider audience, so any other book has to compete with these. If you write a more complex book, less people will buy it, as less will be able to fold to that level. For the time being, I'll stick with sketch diagrams on a website...
A couple of other comments:
The thought of sticking the diagrams in was to appeal to paper-folders. The model is a lot simpler than it looks, so the diagrams wouldn't take too long to get to a high level.
And as for fixing that head, what would you suggest? By adding two strip grafts either side of the main one, I can add teeth and frills. However, that doubles the folding time. I think the head's just right
It is always a puzzle whether any money can be made out of a creative hobby such as origami. In the same way that every painter or potter would want to make money from their work, so would paper-folders. The trick is how to do it. People percieve models made from paper to be of less value than those made from other artistic media. Painting, drybrushing (as my dragon is), glazing, etc can all add to a model, and make it look more of a display piece. However, finding a buyer can be tricky. Rumour suggest that artists such as Eric Joisel can sell a model such as his pangolin for £1000. However, most of us, myself included, do not have his ability.
Everyone on this forum dreams of selling a folding method to someone like NASA, however, that isn't going to happen for most of us. The likes of Robert Lang may be able to understand rocket science, or indeed, the geometry required to unfold a satelite solar panel. I, for one, don't. I can make a comment or two about medicine and surgery. About the biggest innovation that I have come across is a method of folding a sheet of A4 to act as a guide for the angle required in hip surgery, of which the authors were not paid!
Writing books may not be the meal ticket that some may think is, either. I suppose if you are John Montroll, you can make a bit, but for everyone else, books are going to be a labour of love, rather than a money maker. Simply put, there are loads of 'basic origami' books out there for the wider audience, so any other book has to compete with these. If you write a more complex book, less people will buy it, as less will be able to fold to that level. For the time being, I'll stick with sketch diagrams on a website...
A couple of other comments:
The thought of sticking the diagrams in was to appeal to paper-folders. The model is a lot simpler than it looks, so the diagrams wouldn't take too long to get to a high level.
And as for fixing that head, what would you suggest? By adding two strip grafts either side of the main one, I can add teeth and frills. However, that doubles the folding time. I think the head's just right
I once set up an origami PLC. But the business folded.
I think, you shouldn´t sell the model and the diagrams together, but in different auctions. Maybe the market for the diagrams is a lot bigger than for the models (you have a great audience listening ), but maybe you can sell some of the models too, I only don´t know how you could promote them to the right customers.
), but maybe you can sell some of the models too, I only don´t know how you could promote them to the right customers.