Satoshi Kamiya - Ancient Dragon

federicoh · Post by **federicoh** » October 21st, 2009, 3:34 am

men, just try to finish your model with the wrong steps, then youll realise what goes better in next try! it takes time to fold this model, i tried it like 5 times, before i got something "like" kamiyas picture

dude22 · Post by **dude22** » October 21st, 2009, 5:49 am

@Ragnorax,
thanks for the encouragement. Yes you were right it was very hard to collapse it, I had to force it

. i wore my paper out allot and i can see holes coming so i cant use it any more. thanks for your help though.

@federicoh Thanks for your encouragement too, Im going to keep trying.

insaneorigami · Post by **insaneorigami** » October 21st, 2009, 9:27 pm

Dude22- do some test-folds of troublesome areas. Much better to spend some time figuring out exactly how to do the step, than spending less time and doing it wrong.

Keep going! Start over with some new paper, and keep trying

. Tissue foil is good for a first attempt, as it is relatively easy to get a good idea of the model with it. For my first complete folding of the model, I used it, and it worked great. When you have mastered the folding process, move on to some nicer, thinner paper.

I recently re-discovered how fun this model is to fold, and folded one with some tissue foil that I had lying around. Camera is unavailable, but I'll try to take some pics when I get it back.

dude22 · Post by **dude22** » October 22nd, 2009, 5:18 am

thanks. Tissue foil ?? is that expensive ?? sorry i dont know my papers

. i just fold

. started working on the new one, made it a bit bigger since Ragnorax said it was a bit small last time. its 1.5ftx1.5ft, good size??

Edit 457mmx457mm

Ragnorax · Post by **Ragnorax** » October 22nd, 2009, 6:20 am

Minimum recommended size is 50x50cm by Kamiya, but some people have folded the model from far smaller sizes than that. Good luck.

Tissue foil is basically tissue paper glued to foil. You make it yourself.

dude22 · Post by **dude22** » October 22nd, 2009, 3:18 pm

wow make it my self ok.. ok i think i got it this time ....
my paper was 45.72X45.72 centimeters. Close enough ..

DID I??

Ragnorax · Post by **Ragnorax** » October 22nd, 2009, 5:33 pm

That looks about right... a little messy but i believe the folding is correct.

bethnor · Post by **bethnor** » October 22nd, 2009, 6:10 pm

i'm always a little bit surprised when ppl recommend tissue foil to fold this model. especially if you've never made tissue foil before or folded this model.

those open sinks around step 80 are already very hard, especially if you're new to origami (which i suspect dude22 is), because there is no way to open up the model to get traction. this would be even worse with tissue foil as your precreasing is almost worthless, and doing a clean open sink with foil is already a difficult manuever. and if you mess up, not only have you wasted your time with the model, you've also wasted the effort required to make the sheet of tissue foil and cut it to a square (though, on the upside, i figure you can open out the model, smooth it out, and start again).

IMHO, the easiest way to practice this model is taping together four pieces of ordinary kami. yes, the model gets very thick at the end, but we're not talking about presenting the product at some exhibition; we're talking about successfully completing the model. sinks are much easier and you will get an idea of all the pitfalls and difficult steps and how to work around them. if you mess up--just tape together another four pieces and you start all over again. no need to expose yourself to that spray glue stuff a second time.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » October 22nd, 2009, 6:33 pm

I fully agree, Bethnor.
Furthermore, tissue foil rarely ends up looking well with this model; Most tissue-foil Ancient Dragons look like a crumpled mess.

insaneorigami · Post by **insaneorigami** » October 22nd, 2009, 8:09 pm

is that so, Adam? I just folded one and it looks decent.. ..and I folded it with tissue foil. As I previously mentioned, My camera is unavailable - I will, however, take pictures when I get it back.

i'm always a little bit surprised when ppl recommend tissue foil to fold this model. especially if you've never made tissue foil before or folded this model.

bethnor - I did not recommend it to him for the finished model. I recommended it for just getting an idea of the later steps. The sinks at around 80 are difficult to do with tissue foil, but you just have to crease both ways, and be gentle.
As I said:

When you have mastered the folding process, move on to some nicer, thinner paper.

I was also unaware that he had never made tissue foil before.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » October 22nd, 2009, 8:38 pm

Quite so, Insaneorigami. Here's an example - one of the first hits on google after looking for Tissue Foil Ancient Dragon.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/phillipwes ... 378312100/

While the name Phillip West sounds familiar, I can't remember who it is. It's a pretty good folder though, when I look at his other work. He also made a seperate section for models folded from Tissue Foil. They look quite nice, but only this Ancient Dragon looks below average. Now, if you compare it to the Ancient Dragons on folders.jp ( not the one by Kamiya, but the ones posted by others ) you'll see that those folded from non-tissue foil look a lot better.

dude22 wrote:thanks. Tissue foil ?? is that expensive ?? sorry i dont know my papers

If he's never heard of it, I doubt he's made it before.

insaneorigami · Post by **insaneorigami** » October 22nd, 2009, 8:44 pm

Not everyone is Phillip West

. Also, when I posted, I didn't know that he had never used it before....

No hard feelings? We just differ in opinion a bit

And by the way, the name Phillip West rings a bell for me too... ..hmm...

Adam · Post by **Adam** » October 22nd, 2009, 8:47 pm

Heh, I'm just being the devil's advocate here. Tissue foil has its advantages, but it certainly also has some disadvantages. In the end it's up to the folder to weigh those and decied what to use. I'm only providing some insight

bethnor · Post by **bethnor** » October 22nd, 2009, 8:48 pm

it's also just an inherent quality of tissue-foil, where the model tends to look a little wrinkly at the end, and why i'm not crazy about it. in general, the double tissue mc models all look better than their tissue foil counterpart. part of the "crumpled effect" is the underlying foil shining through, part of it is probably also that it's not easy to get a piece of tissue-foil that is compeltely wrinkle free in the first place.

i haven't tried an actual model from it yet, but i think a better tissue foil result is attaching tissue to the white face of foil available from passionorigami. only problem is that this is relatively thick.

good examples of the tissue foil problem are also readily available in your own flick account, insaneorigami. many of the models have a wrinkled appearance to them. that's not a criticism of your skill as a folder; rather, most tissue-foil models have that crumpled look.

Post by **origami_8** » October 22nd, 2009, 8:50 pm

I agree that double Tissue paper (two layers of tissue paper glued together with MC) is probably the most recommendable paper for this model. Thin yet strong and good to shape.

Phillip West used to be an active member of this Forum, so you may know him from some of his posts.