Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby FrumiousBandersnatch » October 26th, 2012, 3:15 am

Calm down there, little pony.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Bubo » October 26th, 2012, 5:45 am

Calm down? Pony? I presume those remarks were directed me - but I can't figure what in my post makes you think I am anything other than entirely calm. IMO the posters who seem most uptight, if any could be said to be, are those who were expecting Kamiya to diagram a whole bunch more models from years ago for his forthcoming book. I, like Bethnor, expected nothing more than what Kamiya has delivered, so I am totally calm. What made you feel the need to reply to my points in such an unconstrutive manner?
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Bubo » October 26th, 2012, 7:08 am

For the record the only models published by Kamiya in the period 2002-2009 that didn't make the book are

Spaniel (2005, Tanteidan #91, published in World of Super Complex Origami)
Crane (2008, Tanteidan #110, published in World of Super Complex Origami)
Samuri Helmet Beetle 2.1 (2008, Tanteidan Convention Book #14, published in World of Super Complex Origami)
Horse (2009, JOAS Special edition)

So, with the exception of the Horse, all models previously published in the period 2002-2009 are in the forthcoming book except those published in Kamiya's other book.

Although they may have been designed earlier the angelfish (tant#120), grass-hopper (tant#125), giraffe (tant#133, seaturtle (TCB#16) and spinosaurus (TCB#17) were all published post 2009. Why the collection stops at 2009 I can't say, but page count may be the reason.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby FrumiousBandersnatch » October 26th, 2012, 9:00 am

Why do i think you're anything less than calm? Perhaps it's the veiled insults like telling people they are "uptight" or "winging"(which I assume means whining?). Or maybe it's your continued desire to drive your point home that strikes me as ever so passive-aggressive. You made your counter argument. We got excited prematurely. Screw us, right? Regardless, consumers have a right to hope a book will contain certain models, and an equal right to be disappointed when it does not. And yet another equal right to refuse to purchase a product the feel to be inferior.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Bubo » October 26th, 2012, 9:33 am

Nothing veiled or passive aggressive in my posts. Your either reading to much into them or I hit a nerve with you - certainly that wasn't my intention. "Continued desire to drive [my] point home" :roll: I made my point twice - the second time in defense of Bethnor who was called unfairly "cynical". I haven't told anyone to screw themselves either nor what they should or shouldn't do in terms of making a purchase.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Baltorigamist » October 26th, 2012, 12:15 pm

Don't know how many I speak for, but I'd be happy if we could ALL just chill out. Those of you who are "disappointed" with the model selection can watch us all waste our money on diagrams that we don't have. As I think I mentioned earlier, I can't afford to buy all the other Tanteidan magazines, etc. That's the good thing about an anthology--it provides one source for things that had previously been scattered all over the place.
Sure, the model variety might not be quite as good as last time, but what did you expect? Leafy Sea Dragon? Tenma? Ryujin 3.5? As has been stated in the past, Satoshi is probably fed up with people demanding diagrams for most of his work. Do you think he's going to spend his time giving in? We're lucky he published ONE book, and this is his third. Yet here you are, complaining, just as you've been for years. What do you think Satoshi feels like? Personally, I feel this is generous of him, even if only because the previous diagrams are hard to come by. He finally made them widely accessible, and here you are.

I know I'll be buying this book at some point simply because I'm happy with the model selection and don't have any of the diagrams.
Those who think I'm wasting my money, feel free to flame me. :sarcasmplz:
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby phillipcurl » October 26th, 2012, 1:10 pm

^thank you.
If anyone had bothered to read the preface in his previous book, he stated that diagramming is not his goal, creation is. and i agree with him.
Now before i get flamed, as earlier i said that i was disappointed that there wasn't more unpublished models, let me elaborate. I meant that it would be nice to have included more unpublished models, but honestly, the model selection is great! i don't own any of these diagrams, so whatever, i'm not spending 500+ bucks on tanteidan conventions and magazines, plus the other sources his diagrams are in. We all know that eventually, diagrams or cp's to most, if not all of his newer models will be published. Have patience, grasshoppers.

Lets shut the hell up with complaining and arguing, i'm sick of it! I can't imagine how tired Satoshi is of people like some of you guys demanding him to make diagrams for all of his damn models. Just think, if he were to diagram the Ryuzin, i'd have to spend 12 hours a day deleting posts asking for help with steps 17 to 1000. I would probably go insane. That is probably why he stopped responding to emails, because of idiots like that. "hey, mr kamiya, can i have the diagrams to Ryuzin?"

Seriously, put yourself in his position for a few seconds. Think about how frustrating his life probably is. Yes, Satoshi is a great designer, one of the best in fact, but there are plenty more good designers and models out there. If you aren't happy with this book, go buy another one. don't sit on your computer complaining to people who quite frankly, don't give a f uck.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Baltorigamist » October 26th, 2012, 1:26 pm

phillipcurl wrote:If anyone had bothered to read the preface in his previous book, he stated that diagramming is not his goal, creation is.

Exactly.

It's not like I care who buys the book and who doesn't, and I don't think Satoshi cares either. As I stated, this is very generous of him, so we should be thankful for what we have.

Think about the Eric Josiel book. I don't see anyone complaining about how so-and-so's CP didn't make it it, and there's zero chance of him releasing them because he died. So why are you all making such a big deal of the model selection? Are there models I'd have liked to see diagrammed here that aren't? Of course.
But, as Phillip stated,
phillipcurl wrote:We all know that eventually, diagrams or cp's to most, if not all of his newer models will be published.



phillipcurl wrote:Seriously, put yourself in his position for a few seconds. Think about how frustrating his life probably is. Yes, Satoshi is a great designer, one of the best in fact, but there are plenty more good designers and models out there. If you aren't happy with this book, go buy another one. don't sit on your computer complaining to people who quite frankly, don't give a f uck.
This goes back to my Eric Josiel point. Nobody's spamming his estate's inbox asking for all his models to be published posthumously. There's Robert Lang, Jon Montroll, even Hideo Komatsu with his book. Everyone, just CHILL.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby merman » October 26th, 2012, 4:41 pm

People seem to forget you don't have to buy the book if you don't want to. We also seem to forget not everything is for free. You guys folding from illegal copies should give that some thought. Putting out this book is a nice gesture from Satoshi. It also is a sign OH is doing well again after the publishing hiatus. Two great books in one year!

I think it is an excellent collection.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby bethnor » October 27th, 2012, 2:36 am

Bubo wrote:For the record the only models published by Kamiya in the period 2002-2009 that didn't make the book are



to be clear, the book is not an anthology of previously published models. by definition we wouldn't be getting the phoenix, tree frog, or tanuki. so it has to mean models designed between 2002-9. which does make the selections somewhat odd. i would imagine, for instance, that the sea turtle, spinosaurus, veiltail angelfish, or horse all make better "show" pieces than say, the shell or the elephant. YMMV.

bottom line is that it's not worth trying to question it. the styracosaurus was also designed between 2002-9. and it is obviously diagrammed. why you would go to the trouble of diagramming it and not release it is beyond me. i'm sure that's the case for several of those models.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Baltorigamist » October 27th, 2012, 2:55 am

It's an anthology and then some. I belive almost all of the models in WOSK 1 had been published in Tanteidan convention books and magazines (except for AD, Bahamut, and Splash, but we had a CP for AD in one of them).
As far as not including the Styracosaurus, I really don't know. Maybe he's saving those diagrams for something in the future. (Is it really even diagrammed, though? I've heard nothing about that.) But we got the Phoenix and Tanuki, which is good enough for me.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Fluffy » October 27th, 2012, 6:15 pm

I've been trying to find a Tanteidan 15 for a year and a half now for that cerberus. Thank goodness its in there. Most models in the book are very hard to find.

OUT OF STOCK ONES
Turban shell - Austrailan Convention Book 2005 , Out of Stock.
Hermit Crab - JOAS Special Edition 2007 - Out of Stock\
Cerberus - Tanteidan 15 - Out of Stock
Lion - Tanteidan 13 - Out of Stock
Minotaur - CDO Convention Book 2009 - Out of Stock

HARD TO FIND
Japanese Maple Leaf - Quadrato Magico 95 - (I dont know where you can get this, anyone know?)
Cicada Nymph - Origami USA Convention Book 2004 (I think, or 2005)

So? I actually really like the selection, and even if they are mostly published, they are still pretty dang hard to get. Cerberus seems to be a different version, so technically thats unpublished.

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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Xerxes » October 27th, 2012, 6:17 pm

I personally have absolutely no problem whatsoever with Kamiya's model selection. I will gladly buy this book just for Phoenix 3.5 diagrams, and since I don't have any Tanteidan magazines, I am really looking forward to this new book.
Really, people should stop complaining about what is in the book and what is not. Just be glad and thankful that Works of Satoshi Kamiya 2 didn't simply end as an April Fool's joke and actually got made into a book.
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby Bubo » October 28th, 2012, 3:56 am

Fair points Bethnor. Even as I put that post together and was checking some of the design, rather than publication, dates I realized the models selected may not be comprehensive. Nonetheless my facts are correct.

I have already purchased the book even though I already have all of the officially published diagrams other than the turban shell (I hadn't even heard of that one). I'm getting it for two reasons. Firstly the pheonix diagrams - no further explanation need on that one. Secondly to support the only way I can an artist who has given so generously to my passion and hobby. I feel if such artists aren't supported and encouraged to continue to diagram then diagrams, especially complex ones, will start to dry up - being replaced by crease patterns. With piracy rampant artists like Kamiya, Chan, Ermakov etc need all the support that we who rely on their diagrams can afford. I'm looking forward to Eco Origami as well. :D
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Re: Satoshi Kamiya's New Book

Postby bethnor » October 28th, 2012, 6:25 am

those who wanted more should take heart and just be patient. likely he'll continue to have a model with every tanteidan, and have at least one model with the JOAS. and though it feels like forever, it actually has only been seven years between the first book and this one. not too long in origami world time at all.
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