Christmas Origami Book 2010

General discussion about Origami, Papers, Diagramming, ...
Lephantome92
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Post by Lephantome92 »

Ok, just an update, Triforce and Missile have been claimed. Therefore, there's still the Centipede and Pangolin v(X) to be claimed!!
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malachi
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Post by malachi »

Anna, I don't mind sharing my objections, although I don't think it does much to argue against a tradition here. I basically have two problems.

1. It seems a bit elitist to only allow people who can design and/or diagram to participate. There are a lot more folders than designers in the world and totally excluding them without any reasonable way to participate seems a bit unfair. I could understand giving the book to contributors and letting non-contributors pay a small fee that gets contributed to, say, the upkeep of the forum or the origami database or some other shared resource.

2. The exclusivity requirement seems to promote hoarding of designs instead of sharing, and I personally believe that the culture of origami sharing is a major driving force in the hobby right now. Knowing that the Christmas book is coming up, some designers will withhold new models throughout the year that they might otherwise release. They might also keep them private after the book is published to preserve the exclusive/elite feel of the project. I do not feel that either of these behaviors are positive for the hobby and the community in general. (It also punishes people who are apt to share their designs, since those models will not qualify.)

I can see that there are some people who will find this project to be the motivation they need to diagram a model that they might not otherwise diagram, and that they might eventually release it more widely. This is laudable, although it was not clear to me until you answered my question what the expected limitation of exclusivity actually is.

Again, I do not expect my feelings to influence this project. But those are my reservations.

thanks,
malachi
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Falcifer
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Post by Falcifer »

I wouldn't say that I object to this idea, but I do share some of the concerns that malachi has brought up.

I should say, though, I have spent more time looking into designing lately; reading over ODS, looking at various blogs (Wolf's blog has been a huge help) and other sites to get a better idea of how to design something. It's not only helped my understand the process of designing a model (albeit, mostly box-pleated CPs so far), it has also given me a new appreciation for the effort that goes into it.
It's mostly down to the Christmas Book that lead me to go in that direction, though, since I don't have any models of my own to diagram. So there is definitely some good to come from it.

I'm sure it will also entice some designers to either clean up their models for the release of diagrams and/or to release diagrams which they otherwise might not have drawn in the first place.
Again, the book should lead to positive results, too, even for those not involved.

But, as malachi says, there may be a few who withhold diagrams, knowing that the book is coming out. There may also be a few who hastily diagram a model - or worse, hastily design a model - just to get in the book.
I know I would hate to spend many hours and lots of effort perfectly a model and creating a nice folding sequence, then creating crisp, clear diagrams, and then find out that the book contains many poorly diagrammed, badly sequenced models.
Of course, this is hypothetical; I don't expect this would happen! But there may be some discrepency between the quality of models/diagrams which would seem to favour those who put less effort in (though, I still admit that even "less effort" would not be a small amount).

Overall, though, I think the idea is a good one. Aside from the good things I mentioned at the beginning, it's also nice to give something back to the creators. This is where I disagree with malachi. It's true that there are many more folders than designers, which should go some way to showing how difficult it is to design compared to "simply" folding a model. And there are plenty of examples where designers will publish diagrams and/or crease patterns freely without a second thought about it. Some designers even go so far as to document the process of creating a model and how to transfer an idea into the end result.
Therefore, I don't think that a book, released once a year, is likely to threaten anything.
I also think it makes a nice Christmas present for those who have put the extra work into origami.

I suppose everyone will be motivated in different ways; some might hold onto diagrams they already have, some might draw new diagrams, some might design new models. For me, I was motivated to learn how to design.
Hopefully, the positives will outweigh the negatives in the end, and maybe, in January, there will be more diagrams available to the rest of us.

I would like to finish by saying that this wasn't meant to be a rebuttal to malichi's post, and it wasn't my intention to incite an argument over people's motives or actions and it was certainly not my intention to insult or offend anyone, it's just my thoughts and opinions.

But shouldn't it be called "Winter Holiday Season Origami Book"? :wink:
Lephantome92
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Post by Lephantome92 »

Falcifer wrote:But shouldn't it be called "Winter Holiday Season Origami Book"? :wink:
Hehe if this was an American only forum, I could go on a sounds-like-a-three-year-old-while-pointing-out-a-reasonable-point mini rant. But, since the only constraint here is it must be in English, I'm all good!!
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orislater
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Post by orislater »

political correctness is gay. at my old school you couldn't even say "mexican" without someone calling you racist! then you say black and everyone else corrects you "african american"
Then if you hate Obama (which i do) suddenly you're a racist! Whats wrong with hating someone? nothing! whats wrong with hating someone who's "different"
sorry for the off topicness i just hate political correctness (especially when it's christmas and the radio calls it "the holidays")
my flickr tissue foil is for noobs! mc FTW!!!!
Gfolder
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Post by Gfolder »

This sounds like a great idea but i have a few questions
1. can the model(s) submitted be geometric in nature? or do they have to be "representational"?
2. Could the diagrams be hand-drawn? As I have no experience with drawing programs.
If both of these answers are yes, than i will happily contribute my fractal lotus :D (sorry no pic atm)
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joshuaorigami
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Post by joshuaorigami »

I will soon send my simple fish and penguin.
Image
Image

I diagrammed them both without folding them yet. :)
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Post by eteokles »

I have send my lemon leaf and a kusudama ball I have designed last summer

Both are on my flickr stream, hope you like them

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orislater
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Post by orislater »

i just diagrammed my overgrown snail model. This book will be great! :D
my flickr tissue foil is for noobs! mc FTW!!!!
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origami_8
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Post by origami_8 »

@Gfolder:
Every kind of Origami model is appreciated. You can send instructions for tessellations, modular things, animals, polyhedra, buildings, objects or whatever else you please as long as Origami is included.
Hand drawn diagrams are fine, preferable scanned ones.
bethnor
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Post by bethnor »

orislater wrote:political correctness is gay. at my old school you couldn't even say "mexican" without someone calling you racist! then you say black and everyone else corrects you "african american"
Then if you hate Obama (which i do) suddenly you're a racist! Whats wrong with hating someone? nothing! whats wrong with hating someone who's "different"
sorry for the off topicness i just hate political correctness (especially when it's christmas and the radio calls it "the holidays")
if this post is going to stay in this thread, then i feel i have to respond.

i can only guess that you're too young to understand.

but with time, you'll realize that before you can really hate someone, you really have to know them. and they have to know you. you don't know anything about obama and he doesn't know anything about you. you can disagree with his policies, his beliefs, etc., etc., but what has he done to you, personally, to earn so much vitriol (i know you to be quite young orislater, so it cannot be that he is forcing you to pay taxes, as i am quite sure you are not paying taxes)? only when you've lived long enough, will you understand what is meant by that. i get to say all that 'cuz i've been there. i grew up in an america that was trained into hating the russians, as seeing them as the "other" and "different." you don't have to believe me, just find any movie from that time period and you can see for yourself (rocky IV, red dawn, there was even a game called "fortress america").

but when i visited russia in my teens, all i saw were a people who were just like us. they didn't want our land or our power... they wanted the everlasting summer, crops that grow, and happiness for their children... that's it.

and i'm sorry. hating something simply because it is "different" has caused irreparable damage to the world already. when you hate something you do not know, it makes it easy to destroy. when you have a better understanding of what's going on in the world today, you'll understand what is meant by that.

and as i enter the fourth decade of my life, it makes me sad... and afraid... that people cheer this stance in a thread that's supposed to be about christmas origami.
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Post by nonkelgans »

I just have send in my contribution.

To be honest, I find the idea of an E-book a great idea, even if not everybody can have it. I mean, this is a great motivation to start designing your own origami, it doesn't have to been 100+ steps, many great things can be made with far less. For others (like me) it might be a motivation to actually start to make a diagram of the things you design. And it's not to make something of an elite amongst the folders, if everybody would get a copy it would be too easy, some people would only take advantage of the work of others without ever making a contribution.
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orislater
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Post by orislater »

hey bethnor,
i get what your saying buy: i dont hate people because theyre different! my comment was just meant to say kids these days are taught to be politicaly correct. I used obama as an example even though i dont know him. sorry for the confusion. i was not trying to start another flame war.
-slater
ps i dont read long posts so i might have missed this but; is there a due date for the diagrams?
my flickr tissue foil is for noobs! mc FTW!!!!
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origami_8
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Post by origami_8 »

December 15.
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orislater
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Post by orislater »

ok good i have enough time. thank you
my flickr tissue foil is for noobs! mc FTW!!!!
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