The Origami Forum

Bubo wrote:Yes I'm serious,

I said "of late". Origami Insects 1 and 2 were several years ago as were Manuel Sirgo's books.

the problem is still this. no matter how one decides to cut the cheese, there is still more dedicated books of complex origami to insects than any other subject. the age of the books is irrelevant and doesn't change this cold, hard fact. consider the subject, for instance, of dinosaurs. there are perhaps two in existence (maybe three, depending on whether you want to say that gilgado has authored one book or two, when in essence his newer book appears to just contain models, some of which have updates, from his old one, and origami fantasy, as beautiful as it is, is pretty tame when compared to most any insect book in terms of complexity). the rest is intermediate, high-intermediate at most, much of it infuriatingly physiologically incorrect.

this doesn't even compare to the volume of stuff on insects. not even a little.

just within the subject of mammals, decent cats have only been designed perhaps within the past 10 years at most. good insects have been going on for much longer than that. and this is only generic domestic cats--there are few, if any designs, which look specifically at the considerable physiologic variation, even simple ones (scottish fold, for instance). the one kawahata just released in the 17th convention was probably his first really passable one, and even then, it's still seated. even amongst the great cats, none of the very fine leopards have really been diagrammed yet. the best lions are still just abstractions at best with blocks or spikes for manes. not to mention ungulates, which have tremendous variation, as trollip is demonstrating, where the surface has barely been scratched. decent primates have also only recently appeared as well (as a piece of art yoshizawa's gorilla is beautiful, but it doesn't look at all like any gorilla i've ever seen) and designers are still struggling with something more than abstraction to represent human figures.

again, compared to all of this, the material on insects is a veritable mountain and there is no comparison.

when one considers that currently there are about 87 million species of animal on the earth, the comparison widens. when one further considers that this represents the remaining 2% that hasn't been wiped out by evolution, the gap widens even more.

there will be some insects in brian chan's book, but he was known to have said that he wasn't looking to make origami insects 3, which is further testament to the subject matter's ubiquity.

CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES
In other words, I'm very happy for this

JumPurge wrote:CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES
In other words, I'm very happy for this

I know The models in this book are simply amazing. Origami books that contain all amazing models can be hard to come by

Sroge4 wrote:

JumPurge wrote:CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES
In other words, I'm very happy for this

I know The models in this book are simply amazing. Origami books that contain all amazing models can be hard to come by

The only problem with having so many kinds, is that it pleases no one

In general, I agree with everything Bethnor has said. I most certainly understand the appeal of arthropods in origami (obviously, more than just insects--arachnids, crustaceans, myriapods, etc.): the challenge of figuring out how to generate zillions of points in discreet places from a single square is a complicated and fun one, and for those of us that aren't creating them, seeing how many different, and often exotic, solutions people have found for such problems is fabulous fun!

But...while there are more arthropods out there than any other metazoans (in terms of species diversity), for huge swaths of that diversity the differences between species are minor--there isn't any point in trying to invent discreet models for each when minor variations, if any (many species are distinguished on features that are microscopic and/or not even folded in origami models!) would "make" them. Couple this with the fact that certain arthropods keep getting tackled again and again (pine sawyers, stag beetles, rhinoceros beetles, grasshoppers and other orthopterans, etc.), the vast majority of available origami arthropods represent just a very few taxa. And there are great heaping gobs of arthropods that no one has yet even tried to make (at least, not that I've ever seen)--mallophagans? springtails? termites? maxillopods? water fleas? notostracans? pycnogonids? There are only so many origami beetles that can be created before they start to look alike, and why bother when there are other things to tackle? Why not be the first to ever create something in a category no one else has tackled instead?

Not only are origami insects in particular, among arthropods, over-represented, the sheer diversity of arthropods is massively UNDER-represented. If you're going to create them, don't duplicate what's already there...give us something new! But at the same time, give us new stuff from NON-arthropods, or at least non-INSECTS. And though I'm not a huge fan of origami humans, there's a huge untapped diversity there, too, and making those realistic and detailed is, IMHO, just as difficult, if not more so, than arthropods.

I guess this is going off topic but it's a good conversation. I agree with both of you (Bethnor and Dinogami). You have both elegantly summed up many of my own feelings on origami subjects and its current direction, particularly Bethnor your comments about cats and ungulates. I am also a big fan of Dinosaurs (Kawahata's stegosaur woulld one of my five favourite models - The manner in which the body almost folds itself around the plates is genius in its simplicity).

Nonetheless I would maintain that while other subjects should be (and are being) persued at the "simple" and "complex" levels that does not mean that insect designs should be "put on hold". I do have disagree with you Bethnor when you say the age of the books is not relevant. I is highly relevant to my enjoying the folding of these subjects. There could be twenty books on insects - but if I have folded each model in each book twenty times then I will be far more likely to get enjoyment from folding a new design - be it of a different never before designed species or a more realistic/detailed version of one that is represented in each of those twenty books - Chan's Kabutomushi comes to mind (please keep in mind I do in reality enjoy folding all subjects, including cats and elephants). You may have over looked my point that I (and others) actually enjoy folding insects. Clearly Lang, Chan and several of the VOG members like to design them. Be it folding them or designing them it's not just the challenging sequences but also that the models approach a level of realism that isn't/can't be achieved with other subjects (I fully appreciate that representational folding is by no means the only or highest aspiration origami should have, its just one goal). There's something pleasing to me about being able to take one of those 0gsm sheets of paper and being able to turn it into something that could pass for the real thing. It's probably not a feeling that all folders have had or seek out but I know I'm not alone in appreciating this aspect of origami.

The three of us clearly do want the same thing - diversity in subject matter and artistic interpretation. Perhaps where Bethnor and I will agree to disagree is that I feel insects/arthropods should continue to be well represented in current and future generations of models as part of that diversity and that of late I think their diagrams are on the wane.

Sorry for another mammoth post. Perhaps I should go back to lurking.

ok nicholas.....im not sure what your going to charge for this masterpeice....but id pay more for this than the tantedian convention books anyday.....just saying.....keep up the good work!

Nicolas, you should charge mixmaster an extra $10 for every unnecessary period in his previous post...

dinogami wrote:Nicolas, you should charge mixmaster an extra $10 for every unnecessary period in his previous post...

I see two in yours

Sroge4 wrote:

dinogami wrote:Nicolas, you should charge mixmaster an extra $10 for every unnecessary period in his previous post...

I see two in yours

I see none in yours.

You might want to know how much work needed to make a book.
It is really difficult to quantify. Of course, most of the time is taken to draw the diagrams. Overall, it takes about half a day per page (counting also the proofreading, corrections ...).
But before diagram and after diagram, there is a lot of work to imagine the book, fix the content, correct mistake, ask test and solve many problems.

These are some data to show you what we need to make a book :

- Project start on 21 may 2008 (yes 3 years ago)
- I've exchange 440 mails with Giang Dinh to fix and make the book
- Total of mails including the proof-readers, the testers and all the persons working on the book = 1650
- How many persons work on the book ?
- Giang Dinh as coordinator & me as editor
- 14 VOG authors
- 4 testers (2 main testers + 1 doctor tester for the hurry + 1 final tester (who work hard now !!)
- 2 english proof-readers
- 2 french proof-readers
- 2 guys working on the cover to adapt it for the printer format
Total = 26 persons

Today, I'm full time on the book to include all the corrections, correct typo and working on the cover. One last diagram have a big problem. We might remove it if we can't find a better folding sequence, hoping to be able to find an other diagram in so short time.

The publication is always fixed before Christmas period but no more information.

Nicolas

Nicolas i have really enjoyed reading passion origami and licence to fold and this looks to be even better so thanks for your dedication and time and thanks to all the other people working on this as well you all deserve a big THANK YOU and i can't wait

Astounding to hear to hear the work needed.
But English/French? Why not Vietnamese? 0-o If there is a Vietnamese language...

có một ngôn ngữ tiếng việt

New model revealed = Spectacled Bear by Dao Cuong Quyet
http://www.origami-shop.com/en/spectacl ... -1835.html

This bear is the winner of the contest "La Justa de los Jucumaris" http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericmadrig ... 035914793/