who is the best at origami?

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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Harpseal » March 16th, 2012, 7:36 pm

Lang's probably best ast teaching people, closely followed by joseph wu in my opinion, Kamiya or Shuki kato are probably best makers of dragons, but everybody's got a dif :wink: :? ferent idea.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby phillipcurl » March 17th, 2012, 12:06 am

personally I like kamiya's diagrams best, they are easy to follow even in japanese.

and i do have to agree with you on the dragons part.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Harpseal » March 17th, 2012, 6:28 pm

Kamiya has a very obvious style, which is hard to explain, which can be off putting, but i sort of agree, kamiya's diagrams take it one step at a time, and if the step is unexplainable in one step, it becomes two, and so on. Robert lang however, is keen to teach (how many books?) and has written software to help others teach (treemake, TESS and the other one whiich i can never remember).
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby phillipcurl » March 17th, 2012, 7:32 pm

he has diagrammed like 600 models, i don't even think kamiya has designed that many O.o
and do you mean reference finder? he also wrote software that will pre-crease a sheet of paper by the crease pattern. its pretty cool, i will i had that software and machine.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Baltorigamist » March 17th, 2012, 7:58 pm

Remember that Lang is older though--he's in his 50s or 60s, I think, whereas Satoshi's still only in his 20s. So he hasn't had as much time to fold and design as Robert has.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby HankSimon » March 17th, 2012, 9:32 pm

Robert isn't "older" ... he's talented and more experienced :-) There are lots of folders who are older... but not nearly as prolific.

Although not really the question, of the living folders in the West, I believe that Montroll and Lang have influenced many folders. While Harbin and Yoshizawa, and Oppenheimer helped to popularize Origami, Lang's ODS has opened Origami design to more people and younger audiences that anyone else I can think of. I guess the next breakthrough we need is one that encourages diagramming...
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby phillipcurl » March 17th, 2012, 9:43 pm

I believe he is in his late 40's or early 50's. not so old.
and good point, he has had at least 20 more years of experience than satoshi to design. and Lang updates his website constantly, while satoshi maybe once every 2 or 3 years.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Baltorigamist » March 17th, 2012, 10:24 pm

Lang has several different models of the same kinds of subjects, which Satoshi doesn't.
Plus, most of Lang's newer stuff is either abstract (Squaring the Circle, 8.8.4 Resch, etc.) or box-pleated, like most of his insects. The only box-pleats Satoshi has are the Ryujins, Mammoth, Shishigami and Caribou 2.2--if only partially--and a few others. There's only so much that can be done in the way of purely representative designs that can be dome without exhausting techniques. I also noticed that many of Satoshi's designs are based on video-game characters. While there are many of these (and his renditions are amazing!), they're obviously very difficult to fold, and I wouldn't be surprised if Satoshi's "worn himself out" as far as design techniques go.

So really, it all boils down to the choice of subject material. Lang has chosen to pick from a much wider variety, even going so far as to do a few models of one subject. Satoshi, on the other hand, seems to pick and choose his subject from almost everywhere, but not doing much in any one area.

HankSimon wrote: I guess the next breakthrough we need is one that encourages diagramming...


I actually don't agree with this. While we all would like to see more diagrams, origami is an advancing art. Models these days are getting so complex as to be un-diagrammable. Look at Lang's Roosevelt Elk from ODS2 for instance. More of today's models being diagrammed would mean more of "measure-and-mark-these-20-points," which would take away from the purity of the art. And to me, nothing is more important than preserving the integrity of origami. Would Yoshizawa have been content to sit for hours with a ruler, carefully finding to-the-10,000th reference points?
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby HankSimon » March 18th, 2012, 1:25 am

Yoshizawa 'invented' standardized diagramming... :-)

Complexity can be defined in at least two different ways - the mathematical precision that Lang's CPs offer vs. organic warmth and life that Yoshizawa obtained via wetfolding, typified by Lafosse, Joisel, and so on. For example, Giang Dinh's fox and sleeping dog have few folds and diagrams, but are very complex.

On the other hand, I believe that people who diagram carefully, learn to design better... And just because a Model is more complex... does not mean that it is a better work of art.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Menschenfeind » March 18th, 2012, 1:55 am

HankSimon wrote:And just because a Model is more complex... does not mean that it is a better work of art.


This is what I think, so there's no "best origamist" for me.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby phillipcurl » March 18th, 2012, 2:42 am

Baltorigamist wrote:I also noticed that many of Satoshi's designs are based on video-game characters. While there are many of these (and his renditions are amazing!), they're obviously very difficult to fold, and I wouldn't be surprised if Satoshi's "worn himself out" as far as design techniques go.


most of his more recent models have been based off animals. he hasn't designed a videogame character in quite a while it seems.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Harpseal » March 18th, 2012, 9:18 am

you mean reference finder?

Yeah, that's the one.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Baltorigamist » March 18th, 2012, 6:37 pm

HankSimon wrote:Giang Dinh's fox and sleeping dog have few folds and diagrams, but are very complex.

On the other hand, I believe that people who diagram carefully, learn to design better... And just because a Model is more complex... does not mean that it is a better work of art.


Dinh's work, as well as some of the more technical models, can be difficult to diagram though, whether the model has 12 steps or 120. The simpler stuff takes a lot more intuition, even if there aren't as many folds, and it's impossible to confine intuition into a printed space.
I see it like trying to create a living orgamism. We can make a list of all the proteins needed for life, we can arrange them all in just the right way. But actually making it live takes a special kind of skill that can't be found by any instructions.

phillipcurl wrote:most of his more recent models have been based off animals. he hasn't designed a videogame character in quite a while it seems.


And it's good that he's been moving into more broad topics. But regardless of what he's designing, he hasn't done much in the past few years--I've only seen about 5 or 6 designs since 2009.
To be honest, though, I think it's good that Satoshi seems to be taking a break. I know from personal experience how hard it is to maintain a life while trying to crank out a design a week for months at a time. Trust me, it gets annoying.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby Harpseal » March 19th, 2012, 5:44 pm

A design once took me 3 months. I ended up with a snowball. I was more than miffed and temporarily gave up origami for a few months.
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Re: who is the best at origami?

Postby phillipcurl » March 19th, 2012, 6:26 pm

Baltorigamist wrote:But regardless of what he's designing, he hasn't done much in the past few years--I've only seen about 5 or 6 designs since 2009.
To be honest, though, I think it's good that Satoshi seems to be taking a break. I know from personal experience how hard it is to maintain a life while trying to crank out a design a week for months at a time. Trust me, it gets annoying.


I believe he has definitely created more than that in that ammount of time. Think about his for now unknown designs, like this anubias plant:
Image

He probably has created a lot, some he may not have wanted to release yet, maybe he will wait to release a CP or diagram. Also notice all of the models on his website (besides the pre-2000 ones) have a cp or diagram released somewhere.
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