MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Postby Origami_Hunt » May 26th, 2020, 9:58 pm

Hi Alo,

It is true that you need to experiment. Regarding the products, corn and wheat flour are easy to find in supermarkets. Gelatine can be found in the backing section.
For single tissue, I would start trying things in this order: PVA, gelatine, cornflour, tapioca flour.

Hope it works for you.
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on May 27th, 2020, 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sugar

Postby Origami_Hunt » May 26th, 2020, 11:04 pm

Long molecules present in sizing agents are the ones making the paper crispy. These molecules could be proteins present in milk, soy and gelatine; or long carbohydrates present in starches (amylose and amylopectin). However, most of these products contain other molecules (fats, small carbohydrates, etc.) and these have effects that add or subtract to the final crispiness of the paper. For example, the dry potato mush I bought has 1.2 grams of small sugars per 100 grams of product; the wheat and corn flours have less than 0.2 grams per 100 grams; the semi-skimmed milk powder has 49 grams!; the unsweetened soy drink has less than 0.5 grams; pure gelatine has no carbohydrates. I suspect that simple sugars make the paper lose crispiness when the ambient is humid (or when touched) and brittle if dries, so I decided to treat tissue paper with a sugar solution. The result confirmed what I suspected. The resulting paper did not dry completely and was floppy. Furthermore, it became brittle when I dried it.

The bottom line is that you should check the sugar content of a product if you plan to use it to treat paper. Some recipes ask to add sugar to wheat flour. This would be an error.

EDIT: On the other hand, it might be that the water retention property of table sugar (sucrose) can be put to good use. I am going to add it to gelatine to see whether it removes the plastic feeling that gelatine gives to tissue paper. Perhaps I will try it with PVA, that has the same problem.

Updated the 1st of June 2020

Index of sizing agents
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on June 2nd, 2020, 6:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Postby Alo » May 27th, 2020, 8:41 pm

Thanks for the replies. I'll start experimenting !
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Postby Alo » June 2nd, 2020, 12:11 pm

I have some questions about the gelatine. Should I use powdered gelatine or gelatine leafs.
If gelatine powder do I just have to mix it with water or do I have to boil it in water?
if gelatine leafs how do I "prepare" them so I can treat paper with it ?
Please help me out ?
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How to use gelatine

Postby Origami_Hunt » June 2nd, 2020, 3:09 pm

I made my tests with leaf but powdered gelatine should be fine.

For powder and leaf, you have to dissolve it in warm water. Do not boil it though. Leave it cool down. It will form a gel. It is easier to apply when is cool but not yet a gel. You can apply a second hand if the resulting paper is not thick enough but this second hand tends to make the paper contract. In these cases, I would prefer double tissue as almost all of my recipes work well with double tissue paper.

Gelatine produces very crispy paper with a plastic feeling but if you use too much the paper will warp. While the effect is not important for double tissue, it can be for single tissue.

I have just found that you can avoid warping and the plastic feeling adding a bit of PVA to gelatine. While both PVA and gelatine separately produce a plastic feeling that you may not like, the mixture produces a paper that is resistant but without the plastic feeling.

I am trying several things to improve the recipe. Also, keep in mind that MC works very well for single sheet tissue paper.

Index of sizing agents
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Gelatine and PVA

Postby Origami_Hunt » June 2nd, 2020, 6:48 pm

Gelatine is sometimes sensitive to the moisture in your hands. Also, the paper is crispy but has a plastic feeling.
You can cure both problems adding a bit of PVA.

Recipe for double tissue

6 grams of gelatine.
One-quarter of a pint of water.
Warm it up until the gelatine dissolves.
Let it cool down and add 1 teaspoon of PVA before it forms a gel.

How to apply it

Line up the two sheets of paper.
Paint the top paper with the gelatine-PVA liquid. It will permeate through both sheets.
Let it dry
Apply a second hand when dry if you require a stronger paper.

Where to find gelatine?

In the backing section of supermarkets.

EDIT:

This paper is brilliant. Really strong. It is going to be good for models with curves; models that require some tension. I folded Komatsu's owl with a 15 x 15 cm square.

Last meaningful edit: the 3rd of June 2020

Index of sizing agents
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Postby 1_kg » June 22nd, 2020, 5:01 pm

Hey there origami_Hunt. could you share a picture of how the papers you made reacts to folds. In the specific order to help clarify as I feel your descriptions are great but a pictorial or video source could really help :
1) ability to reverse folds on the same crease
2) ability of paper to hold the fold ( crisp aspect of paper)
3) ability in making complex models that require a lot of collapsing
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Pictures and videos

Postby Origami_Hunt » June 24th, 2020, 10:19 pm

I was going to take some pictures and some videos, but I got busy re-opening our part of the university.
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