MC tissuefoil disaster

[CaddoMoney]

I've recently rediscovered a passion for origami that had been lost since my childhood.

I ordered some tissuefoil from the Origami-shop and am trying to glue two pieces together (paper side in) with MC. I mixed the MC according to the directions 1tsp to 1 pint of cold water, mixed well and let is set overnight per the directions.

I applied a coat of MC to one side of paper and then put the other paper on top and squeezed out the excess, the next morning some parts of the paper was stuck together and other parts weren't - it's almost of as the MC wasn't mixed strong enough or perhaps it won't work on the origami-shop tissuefoil. It all ended up being a bit of a disaster. Since I'd never used tissuefoil before, I didn't order a ton of it so I don't have many sheets to experiment with. I emailed one of the orgamists on youtube that used the same paper for one of his videos and he said that he used white glue diluted with water.

Should I try mixing more MC with the water or go the white glue route or is there another suggestion?

Thank you in advance for your help.

[origami_8]

Just to make sure I got your problem right, you are trying to glue together two sheets of tissue paper or tissue foil paper? If the second is the case, why on earth do you want to do that? If the first is the case, try placing both sheets over each other and then apply the MC. Alternative you can try rolling the second paper onto some kind of tube or broomstick and roll it over the first one that is soaked in MC applying some pressure while you go along.

[CaddoMoney]

Thanks Anna - I've tried gluing one piece of tissue-foil (the paper made by the origami-shop) to another piece of tissue foil and I have tried separately gluing a piece of tissue foil to camel natural tissue paper. I'm trying to get a piece with green on one side and brown on the other so I can make an origami Yoda seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5B71d1OR_M

[origami_8]

I don't think it is recommendable to glue together two sheets of Terry tissue foil. These papers are fairly thick and I guess if you glue two of them together it will be unfoldable. I would recommend you to take one tissue foil sheet and one sheet of tissue paper. It shouldn't make a big difference if you use MC or white glue, but probably I'd rather use white glue for the task. (The one I use is Metylan Ovalit T diluted 1+1 with water.) Apply the glue onto the Terry tissue foil and roll the tissue paper over it, smoothing out airbubbles with a piece of kitchen tissue as you go along. Like I wrote above, you can use some kind of tube or stick to roll the tissue paper on.
To apply MC I use a big brush, for white glue I use a small painters roll.

[CaddoMoney]

Thanks for the reply, I'm using the same paper that the folder in the video posted above used so I know that it's possible to fold when the paper is stuck together. I will say that that the papers do seem a bit on the thick side, so we'll see. I'll try the white glue approach and see what the results are. I didn't think that white glue would bend very easily after it dried, but I've never tried. I'll attempt it and report back.

[Timoris]

What are the advantages to using MC instead of spray glue?

[CaddoMoney]

Good question - I've been told that MC was the holy grail of origami paper adhesives, but there is not a real clear answer. I'm just trying to put the pieces together to get a two color sheet.

[shortloldude]

MC makes paper crisp and strong. Normal tissue paper is "soft" and if you use spray glue to join 1 sheets, all you get is a thicker sheet of tissue paper. This can definately work for some models depending on the quality of the tissue paper, but as far as I understand MC creates a better quality of paper for folding. If you have tried MC and used too watered-down MC, it will not create such a crisp nice paper and might be closer to just using glue.

[fncll]

MC is a sizing/treatment *and* an adhesive.

Spray adhesive is just an adhesive and has very little effect on the paper itself.

If you want the paper to be as tissue-like as possible but just in two colors, spray adhesive makes sense.

If you want to enhance the nature of the paper for folding, MC makes sense.

[steingar]

If making actual tissue foil the spray adhesive is far easier if you have access to the ventilation necessary for it's use. The foil is the structural support for the medium.

If making reenforced tissue, I would assume methyl cellulose would be the adhesive of choice, since it will form the structural support for the tissue paper and allow one to perform wet-folding techniques. Have to admit, I've yet to try it myself. Methyl cellulase does take some uummpf to get dissolved, or so I've been told. Most molecules of its class take quite a bit of mixing to go into a even solution.

[CaddoMoney]

Just to clarify, I'm trying to attach a sheet of pre-made tissuefoil to another sheet of tissue foil, not normal foil to tissue.

I put the MC in a water bottle and shook it, let it stand, shook some more, let it stand over night, and shook some more. I'm convinced that it's dissolved, but I don't think that it adheres to tissuefoil very well OR the instructions that were given didn't mix it strong enough.

[steingar]

Just to clarify, I'm trying to attach a sheet of pre-made tissuefoil to another sheet of tissue foil, not normal foil to tissue.

Why? The medium will be far too thick to be even remotely useful. If you want two-tone tissue foil you should just try making it. It isn't hard (heck, if a dufus like me can do it...) and you can select your palette rather than have it dictated to you by someone else.

[CaddoMoney]

Great question - see above...

I'm trying to get a piece with green on one side and brown on the other so I can make an origami Yoda seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5B71d1OR_M

This paper is the same kind of paper that Jo Nakashima provides in the links on the video. So I know that it's possible to fold. I just had subpar results trying to get the two pieces to stick together with MC. Either MC doesn't work with this kind of tissuefoil or it needs to be mixed stronger than the directions.

[fncll]

The issue isn't the strength of the mix of MC or the paper, it's the fact that you are using MC at all. It doesn't bond properly to foil. If you want to use a liquid adhesive, you should use white glue, aka PVA, diluted with water. This is a totally different substance and bonds to fold. PVA and MC both work for paper on paper treatment, but only PVA works properly with foil.

[origami_8]

The Terry tissue foil is no foil at all. It is more like a natural paper with some kind of metalic coating on one side, this coating doesn't even feel metallic, but a little bit waxy. If you paint the MC onto the "paper" side there should be no problem. Only make sure the paper is completely dry when removing it from your glass plate, otherwise the second paper might come off again. As other people mentioned above MC acts as sizing and makes the paper crisper. White glue does have a bit of similar effect, whereas spray glue doesn't. MC and White glue also make the paper stick together more properly giving it a feeling as if it would be only one sheet. With spray glue it feels like two sheets glued together. Therefore I would only recommend spray glue if you have some kind of embossed sheet that you want to glue to another sheet without loosing the structure, but not for projects like glueing two pieces of Terry tissue foil together or making usual Tissue foil. I've folded with usual tissue foil made with white glue and the one made with spray glue and the folding properties of the one made with white glue are just so much better, I will never go back to use spray glue for this kind of paper.