Need paper advice

General discussion area for learning about paper, and the different types available.
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Can Cebeci
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Need paper advice

Post by Can Cebeci »

The only paper I worked with is tissue foil from Terry's origami shop but I'm not really satisfied with it. I am not that experienced though so I will ask for your paper suggestions. That tissue foil is too thick so it is not good for folding box pleated models. For example I tried to fold Hongyi Wan's flygon (56x56) but i couldn't shape it and it started tearing since it was too thick. And not only the box pleated ones. When I folded the Ancient Dragon its legs were not holding the shape. They were like /^\ when I wanted them to be like I^I . Also, when i use tissue foil I can't make arm or legs hold the position i want them to.Would homemade tissue foil work better? I'm not insisting on using tissue foil though. I just want a paper which holds the shape and is not too thick. What would you choose to fold Ancient Dragon or Bahamut? And what would you choose to fold box pleated models? I have never tried MC shaping either. Would that solve my problems? Or is there a better online shop where I can get better paper? Last question: I will try to fold ryujin 2.1 when i have enough time. Which paper should I choose for that one?

I'm sorry for askıng too many questions but ı really need some help :?
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origami_8
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by origami_8 »

Home made tissue foil has completely different properties then the stuff that is sold as tissue foil. You may be able to solve your problem with it. You can try to fix the dragon you folded with a thick solution of MC. Just be aware that you have to keep it in form until it is completely dry, be it with strings, wire, clamps or whatever.
You can also try to use the foil paper that Nicolas Terry sells instead of the tissue foil paper.
However, I'd really recommend you to make your own double Tissue and Tissue foil paper. Those are cheap and easy to make and are amongst the best papers you can get for folding complex Origami models.
Can Cebeci
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by Can Cebeci »

Thank you for answering so soon. I will try making my tissue foil. But what are the benefits of double tissue? should I try it instead? Anyway what about the ryujin 2.1 or box pleated models?
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origami_8
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by origami_8 »

For Box Pleated models I'd use tissue foil because of it's shaping abilities. Double Tissue is one of my all time favourite Origami papers as it takes and remembers creases very well, is super thin and rather stiff. It is very suitable for complex models although it might sometimes need a little bit wet shaping to get into the final form (eventually but not necessarily with MC).
I'd just recommend you to try out both papers and see for yourself what you like best. In the end different folders will choose different papers for the same model because the one likes this feature better and the other one that. Choosing the right paper for a model has a lot to do with personal preferences.
Can Cebeci
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by Can Cebeci »

Tissue:
http://www.origami-shop.com/en/tissue-p ... 4_355.html
Foil:
http://www.origami-shop.com/en/grimoire ... -2673.html
http://www.origami-shop.com/en/silverfo ... 9-703.html
Glue
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Super-Multipur ... B0000AZ735

I don't know where can i buy the materials i need in turkey so i have order them online. Are these ones okay to work with? and which one should i use from the two foils? I also assume that you are not sure about the paper for ryujin 2.1. Thanks anyway though.
BlueFireOrigami
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by BlueFireOrigami »

For Ancient Dragon/Bahamut you should use either Origamido paper (if you are very rich!) or double tissue. For RyuJin 2.1, I think Kraft paper is good. The Origami Shop sell some pretty big sheets.

Any tissue paper should be fine, as long as it doesn't bleed it's colours. Any foil should work for tissue foil aswell as long as it is fairly thin (don't go for the heavy duty stuff), so you don't need to buy specially from Origami Shop. Most importantly, the glue you have chosen is wrong, I'm afraid. When making double tissue, it is preferable to use Methyl Cellulose (there is a topic about it in this forum), but I think regular PVA could be used aswell. When making tissue foil, DO NOT use Methyl Cellulose, because it doesn't work. Instead, just use a regular white glue. Spray glue sticks FAR too quickly.

Hope I helped!

Blue
For free internet diagrams for Satoshi Kamiya's Ancient Dragon,
click the link: http://goo.gl/Y8SxM
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origami_8
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by origami_8 »

I agree with BlueFireOrigami, you needn't order from the internet.
You can get Aluminium Foil rolls in almost any Supermarket. It is the stuff that is used to wrap food.
Tissue paper can usually be bought in office stores, but you might also be lucky in flower shops. Opposed to what BlueFireOrigami said, I prefer to use the bleeding stuff. Usually I use this brand: http://www.modulor.de/en/Paper-Cardboar ... lours.html
Lastly Methylcellulose Paste for making Double Tissue paper as well as white glue for making Tissue Foil can be bought in hardware stores or in paint shops. MC is a powder that needs to be mixed with water. Both are wallpaper glues. Eventually you can also get them in office stores. I use "Metylan normal" as MC and "Metylan Ovalit T" as white glue, but there are other brands as well.
Can Cebeci
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by Can Cebeci »

So I am definitely buying flower tissue from this link but are you sure about the aluminum foil? I heard regular aluminum foil, which is for kitchen use, is too thick to make a good tissue foil. It might be the best to try out though. And I think spray glue is easier to use. Would it really be bad id i used it?
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origami_8
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by origami_8 »

You can use regular aluminium foil for kitchen use, just don't take the heavy duty stuff. I've got a huge roll of 45cm aluminium foil that is actually a bit thicker than usual kitchen aluminium foil and it works great.

Spray glue has completely different properties that white glue (PVA). You can make Tissue Foil with Spray glue, but it is very different than Tissue Foil that was made with PVA. When you use Spay glue the foil is more prominent while folding, making it hard to reverse creases. The Tissue Foil made with Spray glue feels like a compound rather than one layer, it's kinda hard to describe.
Tissue Foil made with PVA is stiffer and feels like one sheet. The paper properties are more present, making it easier to reverse Creases.
Both tissue Foil varieties have their own advantages and disadvantages, but I'd always prefer the one made with PVA. For the PVA one however you also need a painters roll to apply it evenly. The Spray glue you'll better use somewhere outside, where it doesn't matter if everything sticks afterwards. Spray glue can be quite messy, even though it is very easy to apply.
If you can afford it, I'd recommend you to try out both and see for yourself what you like better.
I always have a can of spray glue at home for making compound papers that aren't supposed to get wet because they would lose their structure, but for Tissue Foil PVA is far better in my opinion.
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Sunburst
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by Sunburst »

I wouldn't dismiss the Terry foil out right away if I were you. I was actually successful in folding my own complex BP models. Yes, the paper is thick and has less shapeability than tissue foil... until you learn that you can use wetfolding for finishing touches. Try it out: use a brush to apply water were you need it, wrap the section with a string with the wanted position and let it dry. Of course, it's not as perfect to shape as you would for tissue foil, but it works. It's the paper's tradeoff for requirering no preparation beforehand and for being so fun to fold.
Can Cebeci
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Re: Need paper advice

Post by Can Cebeci »

Sorry guys I forgot to post a reply. I did it with kitchen aluminum foil and tissue paper from an office store and it was perfect. Thank you all for your help
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