Methylcellulose cheap alternatives

General discussion area for learning about paper, and the different types available.
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OrigamiasaEnthusiast
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by OrigamiasaEnthusiast »

Have you tried: Elvacite, Adcote,QuaCorr® 1001 Resin, CA-398-6, trilene, and tryzor? (some might just be the brands..)
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Elvacite, Adcote,QuaCorr® 1001 Resin, CA-398-6, trilene ...

Post by Origami_Hunt »

They are all useless.
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on May 12th, 2020, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by OrigamiasaEnthusiast »

Ok. I don't know much chemistry.... Well thanks I guess. You are doing a great job and this is a great topic.
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by Origami_Hunt »

No problem. Keep experimenting.
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by OrigamiasaEnthusiast »

I'll have to try the rice paper double tissue, for sure.
Hey, Hunt, I need your help. I need to know how much MC is needed for a 40 x 30 inch sheet of double tissue. Also, how do you use MC?
I'm asking you this because you're obviously the MC expert :wink:
Also, congrats on reaching 100 posts! You're almost a super member! :wink:
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by Origami_Hunt »

Well, I am hardly the expert on MC. I have been busy trying other things.

I think last time I used one tablespoon in one pint of water. But don't worry, if this is not enough you can add a second layer of MC or concentrate your solution adding more MC. This is enough for about four or five sheets, depending on size and on the method you use. For double tissue is enough to line up the two sheets and cover them with MC. The same for a single sheet. The solution will permeate the two sheets. In the past, I have used a more thorough but wasteful method:

Paint the surface (glass, plastic) with MC,
Lay the first tissue sheet on top.
Paint it with MC.
Lay the second tissue sheet.
Paint it with MC.

But the only thing this does is waste time and increase the grammage of the final paper but tell us if you had a different experience. Here you have a demonstration by Sara Adams:



Index of sizing agents
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by OrigamiasaEnthusiast »

Thank you! Gotta get me some double tissue now!
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Soya -- the easiest method

Post by Origami_Hunt »

It produces useful results; it is easy to use and is very cheap.

It works probably in the same way that other products I tried before: protein molecules entangle. The drink I bought contains 3 grams of proteins per 100 grams. I avoided the sweetened version because I suspect simple sugars make the paper susceptible to humidity and prone to rip.

Recipe for double tissue paper

Paint the surface with the liquid.
Lay the two sheets of tissue paper on top.
Paint the top sheet.

TIP 1: you may skip the first step, but you will give the paper less sizing agent (the protein).
TIP 2: be careful spreading the liquid or you may rip the paper.

Recipe for single sheet tissue paper

Paint the sheet with the soy drink once.
Let it dry. The paper may already be useful but if you prefer more strength, paint it again. This second layer makes the paper warp, though.

Where to buy it?

In your supermarket. 1 litre cost about £0.55.

Image.

Worth trying if you are curious.

Index of sizing agents
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on January 3rd, 2021, 4:27 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Tapioca flour. Recommended.

Post by Origami_Hunt »

Very good to make crisp single- and double- tissue paper. Not too dissimilar to PVA.

Recipe:

1. Add two tablespoons of tapioca flour to a pint of water (this proportion will vary depending on the desired paper strength).
2. Warm it up until the mixture becomes transparent.
3. Let it cool down.
4. Apply the resulting clear gel to your paper.
5. Enjoy.

How to apply it:

1. Line up the two sheets of tissue paper.
2. Paint them with the gel.
3. Alternatively, you can paint the glass with the gel, lay the two sheets of paper and paint the top sheet with more gel.

Where can I find tapioca flour?

I found it in a local Asian store, but you can buy it from Amazon. It costs £6 per kilogram and you need about 5-10 grams for a typical double tissue sheet. MC costs around £45 per kilogram, so 3 pence per sheet. It is worth trying.

Tapioca flour is also called cassava flour.

Image
Last edited October 4, 2020

Index of sizing agents
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on January 2nd, 2021, 11:33 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by Origami_Hunt »

Dear all, for those of you who have been following this tread, I have added an index at the beginning of the treat. Also, please check the different sections from time to time as I am editing them whit new information every now and then.
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on May 24th, 2020, 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by Gerardo »

That's an excellent idea! Just in case you aren't, I suggest you add a date to your updates in older posts. I think that would be very useful. Don't you agree :) ?
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Dating the updates

Post by Origami_Hunt »

Hi Gerardo,

Actually, you can find the date of the last update as well as the number of updates (edits) at the bottom of every post; however, I may put a reminder inside of the posts.
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by Alo »

Untill now I've only made double tissue paper with MC and it worked very well. Now I want something even thinner. I've tried single tissue treated with MC but the paper was too thin (very hard to reverse creases) and a thicker consistency of MC didn't change much.
My question is what other products/starches or even techniques could you recommend that would thicken the paper more then MC does ?

Bottom line. I need paper thinner then double tissue treated with Mc and thicker then single tissue treated with MC. What products/starches would you recommend ?
thank you !
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by Origami_Hunt »

Hi Alo,

This one is quite tricky! Which model are you trying to fold that requires such limitations? Usually, MC produces good results with singlet sheet of tissue. In general, almost all alternatives in this thread work well with double tissue. Single tissue is more challenging.

To produce crispy single tissue, the best is a protein-based product. Gelatine is the best. However, you will need to experiment a bit with the amount of gelatine. If you use too much, the single tissue paper will warp. Tapioca also produces very crispy paper but it may be more difficult to find in a local store (you can find it in Amazon). If you cannot get it, try corn starch. It also produces crispy paper. However, if you put too much the paper may warp too.
You can also try PVA diluted with water. It produces a thin but strong paper. However, the plastic feeling may be a problem (the same will happen if you use protein-based products).

The alternative is to use double tissue with as little as possible of any of the possibilities I have mentioned in this thread.
Here there is a tutorial describing how to produce double-tissue with rice flour. The author used it to fold insects among other models.



Index of sizing agents
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on June 3rd, 2020, 2:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Alo
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Re: MC substitutes: starches, gelatine, PVA, etc.

Post by Alo »

I need super thin and strong paper for shuki kato's flying kabutomushi (and generally for any super complex origami insect). I've already started folding it with tracing paper (my first time using it) because it's pretty thin and super crispy but unfortunately it rips at "high pressure " points. I still think that I'll finish the model if I can but I want to find a method for making thick enough single tissue paper wich I expect to be stronger then tracing paper.
Anyways thanks for the reply I think I'll just have to experiment a little bit.
By the way PVA doesnt sound bad. A little bit of plastickiness sounds just like what a super thin paper like single tissue might need .I'll just have to try to get my hands on some of the products you listed since it's pretty hard to find them where I live but Amazon should be able to help me out.
Thanks !
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