MC - Methyl Cellulose

General discussion area for learning about paper, and the different types available.

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby thedeadsmellbad » March 10th, 2019, 2:58 am

Baltorigamist wrote:Apologies if this has been covered here, but is it okay to mix two different brands of MC in the same mixture? If it matters, I'm talking about Elmer's Art Paste being mixed with Lineco methylcellulose. They should be the same stuff--or similar, at least--but I don't want to ruin any paper if it doesn't work.


My understanding is the Elmers is more of a PVA. It dries faster, while mc takes longer. They can definitely be mixed together, i would use a greater concentration of mc to to elmers when mixing them.
User avatar
thedeadsmellbad
Forum Sensei
 
Posts: 710
Joined: December 23rd, 2004, 12:27 am
Location: U.S.A

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby thedeadsmellbad » March 10th, 2019, 3:03 am

In case it hasnt been mentioned yet, the CenterFold Ohio Origami Convention has a facebook page filled with videos with a panel of some of the worlds foremost experts on this subject, definitely worth taking a look at here is the link https://www.facebook.com/pg/centerfoldorigami/videos/?ref=page_internal
User avatar
thedeadsmellbad
Forum Sensei
 
Posts: 710
Joined: December 23rd, 2004, 12:27 am
Location: U.S.A

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby thedeadsmellbad » March 10th, 2019, 3:14 am

here are two more from this last years CenterFold Ohio Origami Convention featuring Michael Lafosse & Richard Alexander explaining how to use mc.

part one
https://youtu.be/mbxcZ96pOdc

part two
https://youtu.be/17NT7jO4V_E
User avatar
thedeadsmellbad
Forum Sensei
 
Posts: 710
Joined: December 23rd, 2004, 12:27 am
Location: U.S.A

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby AnswerMeSenpai54 » August 6th, 2019, 6:53 am

Hello everyone! Any tips and/or instructions for a person who is going to use mc for the first time? Do you first apply the mc on the glass or just apply it on the paper? Also I'm just going to treat a single sheet of mulberry tissue from the origami shop. Any help is appreciated!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6010 using Tapatalk
AnswerMeSenpai54
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: July 16th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby Baltorigamist » August 7th, 2019, 1:46 am

Put a thin, even coat of MC on the glass first, then roll the paper out on top. Soak the sheet of paper in a second coat, keeping it even as well. Depending on how many sheets you’re backcoating, you repeat the process for each sheet, laying the upper ones directly on top of the lower ones.
I know you said you’re only treating one sheet, but here’s a tip for gluing two sheets: Lay the second sheet crosswise to the first one (so the fibers are perpendicular). This will help prevent tearing, especially on the bottom layer.
After the fall, we rise.

My Flickr
Baltorigamist
Moderator
 
Posts: 2323
Joined: December 25th, 2011, 7:15 pm
Location: Inside my twisted little mind....

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby Merlyngami » August 7th, 2019, 7:58 am

Baltorigamist wrote:I know you said you’re only treating one sheet, but here’s a tip for gluing two sheets: Lay the second sheet crosswise to the first one (so the fibers are perpendicular). This will help prevent tearing, especially on the bottom layer.


That's clever, I'll have to keep it in mind. Sadly for normal cheap double tissue it's not so good since the sheets are rectangular, and the fibers are probably so short it doesnt make much difference.
User avatar
Merlyngami
Super Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: December 6th, 2015, 8:22 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby AnswerMeSenpai54 » August 7th, 2019, 9:15 am

Thanks! Also should I use mc liberally? I'm worried about it getting ripped.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6010 using Tapatalk
AnswerMeSenpai54
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: July 16th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby thedeadsmellbad » September 4th, 2019, 4:53 pm

AnswerMeSenpai54 wrote:Thanks! Also should I use mc liberally? I'm worried about it getting ripped.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6010 using Tapatalk


Yes use it liberally, especially with thicker papers. :D
Also, i find it best to mist the paper with water first. When I use the mc, the paper will expand causing the paper to warp, which can create a series of problems, the water will negate that effect. Laying down mc on the glass first definitely works well. But for some people, they find that it becomes difficult to remove the paper afterward. If that doesn't happen for you then dont worry about it. But If you find you have trouble with the paper sticking to the glass, you can use a hydrophobic spray on the glass first, like rain-x. Another method would be to mc only the edges of the paper underneath on the glass, then all over the top as usual.
User avatar
thedeadsmellbad
Forum Sensei
 
Posts: 710
Joined: December 23rd, 2004, 12:27 am
Location: U.S.A

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby easysid » April 15th, 2020, 6:32 am

I tried making some double tissue, and I followed the glass - mc - paper - mc - paper - mc method. But the sheet warps when it dries. It gets wavy and doesn't lie flat. How to prevent that?
easysid
Super Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: February 11th, 2011, 10:48 am
Location: /dev/null

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby NeverCeaseToCrease » April 15th, 2020, 4:58 pm

I would guess you need more mc between the glass and first sheet, and possibly less on the last mc layer (I usually don't even do the third layer and it works fine). That will hold down the paper a bit better so it doesn't warp.
NeverCeaseToCrease
Senior Member
 
Posts: 484
Joined: April 7th, 2017, 4:54 am
Location: USA

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby Tankoda » April 15th, 2020, 11:59 pm

Try skipping the last layer entirely.
Tankoda
Senior Member
 
Posts: 276
Joined: July 18th, 2016, 12:33 am

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby Origami_Hunt » May 10th, 2020, 8:01 am

easysid wrote:I tried making some double tissue, and I followed the glass - mc - paper - mc - paper - mc method. But the sheet warps when it dries. It gets wavy and doesn't lie flat. How to prevent that?


I used to do this, but I found that I can simplify the processes:

Put sheet one on top of sheet two.
Apply MC.

It sounds as if your MC solution was too concentrated. I found this to be the problem with other sizing agents. A slow drying process may help, though.

The surface may play a role too. I use a piece of plastic that I bought as part of a large photo frame. It works well.
User avatar
Origami_Hunt
Super Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: July 17th, 2009, 5:09 pm

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby Origami_Hunt » May 10th, 2020, 8:15 am

Baltorigamist wrote:Apologies if this has been covered here, but is it okay to mix two different brands of MC in the same mixture? If it matters, I'm talking about Elmer's Art Paste being mixed with Lineco methylcellulose. They should be the same stuff--or similar, at least--but I don't want to ruin any paper if it doesn't work.


Hi Baltorigamist,

I think under the Elmer name you can find methylcellulose but some other times a mixture of polyvinyl acetate (PVA), polyvinyl alcohol and propylene glycol. I tried PVA + MC but just to realize that the mixture does not produce better results than MC on its own.
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on May 30th, 2020, 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Origami_Hunt
Super Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: July 17th, 2009, 5:09 pm

Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Postby Origami_Hunt » May 10th, 2020, 8:25 am

Tahaorigami wrote:Can anyone tell me how do I buy MC online on amazon?
I searched and many results came. Got me confused!
Also, how much water should I add?


You can find it on Amazon as Methocel. It is sold as a food additive. It has the advantage that it is pure. You can find MC as part of wallpaper paste, but I but avoid these because they usually contain mould killers (fungicides) and while this is good to preserve pape, it may not be good to be touched for hours on end.
User avatar
Origami_Hunt
Super Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: July 17th, 2009, 5:09 pm

Solubility of MC

Postby Origami_Hunt » May 10th, 2020, 10:51 am

I found that some people use warm water to dissolve MC. This should not work because MC is less soluble at high temperature, but read this from the Wikipedia though:

"Methyl cellulose has a lower critical solution temperature (LCST) between 40 °C and 50 °C. At temperatures below, it is readily soluble in water; above the LCST, it is not soluble, which has a paradoxical effect that heating a saturated solution of methyl cellulose will turn it solid because methyl cellulose will precipitate out.

Preparing a solution of methyl cellulose with cold water is difficult however: as the powder comes into contact with water, a gel layer forms around it, dramatically slowing the diffusion of water into the powder, hence the inside remains dry. A better way is to first mix the powder with hot water, so that the methyl cellulose particles are well dispersed (and so have a much higher effective surface area) in the water, and cool down this dispersion while stirring, leading to the much more rapid dissolution of those particles."
Last edited by Origami_Hunt on May 12th, 2020, 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Origami_Hunt
Super Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: July 17th, 2009, 5:09 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Paper

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron