MC - Methyl Cellulose

General discussion area for learning about paper, and the different types available.
bethnor
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by bethnor »

i notice one of the old-timers had a problem with this; where it's not that easy to reverse a crease with double tissue. is this fixed by gooping on more mc?

also... doesn't it not really matter how runny your mc is? technically, all the water dries and the same amount of mc bonds with the paper regardless of how thick your final solution is.

lastly, for those who are venturing into this territory... if you get your mc from the above linked dickblick or any other source which sells it in 1-2 ozs... i highly recommend you double/triple your purchase up. you might end up wasting a lot of your first batch on failures...
bethnor
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by bethnor »

i know i'm posting frequently to this thread.

out of curiosity, how long are your batches of mc lasting? when i was perusing the thread/lurking, i was getting the distinct impression one batch lasts a really long time.

i got 20 gm (2 tablespoons) from origamipapermonster, and i can't have made over a dozen sheets of double tissue.
al-black
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by al-black »

bethnor wrote: also... doesn't it not really matter how runny your mc is? technically, all the water dries and the same amount of mc bonds with the paper regardless of how thick your final solution is..
Just thought I'd follow up on this, thought about it while treating some paper on the weekend.

I've found that if the mc is more viscous, its more likely to have bubbling on the paper when I roll it on to the glass or whatever smooth surface your using. Smoothing those out often causes wrinkles in the paper. When putting 2 sheets together, it compounds the problem.

The other element is that I've found the paper to be less crisp with more viscous mc.

2 cents, and all that, others may not have the problem.

al
bethnor
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by bethnor »

i've finally got the process down pat, more or less.

i was sabotaging myself by letting some of the sheets dry in the garage. i think the fluctuating humidity screwed up the process.

i really like spritz tissue paper from target. the colors are very vibrant and saturated, but i found out that most of them are highly resistant to the strategy whereby you put the two sheets together, mc the top layer and let it soak through--for whatever reason, the mc doesn't penetrate through the sheet to bond it to the bottom one.

michael's bulk tissue paper is terrible. rips too easily.

how do ppl here wet fold your double tissue? for a lot of things, i notice you have to wrap it around something and hold it in place... but i'm afraid of bonding it to whatever you wrap it around. i mean, technically, when you're wetting it again, you're releasing the mc, aren't you?
phillipcurl
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by phillipcurl »

i wet fold my double tissue, only when its more than a couple layers though. otherwise it will most likely rip. i wet fold about 90% of my insects from double tissue
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Baltorigamist
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Baltorigamist »

Apparently kraft paper doesn't take MC? I lost a sheet of it trying to treat it for an upcoming model.
Is there a way to get it to hold its shape better?
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phillipcurl
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by phillipcurl »

I'd just straight up wetfold it. The kraft paper I have seems to already have a good amount of sizing in it. Or elmers glue, purists be damned.
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Kabuntan
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Kabuntan »

Hi,

I stumbled upon this product in a shop in Japan (sorry for the imgur link, I don't have any picture-hosting account).

Is it MC / does it contain MC? If yes, does it need to be diluted or can it be used as is?

Thanks by advance.
Edg
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Edg »

Ingredients on the back say wheat starch (from tapioca) rather than methyl cellulose. I believe Akira Yoshizawa used wheat starch to prepare paper, so you should certainly give it a go! It would be interesting to hear your results if you do try it.
From what I've read, the drawbacks to using wheat starch as a sizing agent are the difficulty and time involved in the preparation (not relevant here as it's ready to use), and the fact that its prone to vermin/insect attack (shouldn't be a worry unless you're making something to last a long time).
Also "does not contain formaldehyde!" , which is always a bonus :wink:
Kabuntan
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Kabuntan »

Thanks! So I'll give it a try as soon as I find some adequate paper (which should not be a problem in this country) and some free time.
Which kind of paper could work the best for this? "Regular" tissue paper, or things like mulberry, etc?
easysid
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by easysid »

Will CMC work as good as MC?
Reason I ask this is because this became available recently on amazon India, and I wanted to ask whether it would work.

Thanks.
al-black
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by al-black »

easysid wrote:Will CMC work as good as MC?
Reason I ask this is because this became available recently on amazon India, and I wanted to ask whether it would work.

Thanks.
Short answer is yes, the subtle answer is it varies a bit depending on the specific product and how you mix it. There's a post by Hank in 2013 that has way more detail along with references and is a great read; search cmc on the site and you'll find it.

al
mummykicks
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by mummykicks »

bethnor wrote:i know i'm posting frequently to this thread.

out of curiosity, how long are your batches of mc lasting? when i was perusing the thread/lurking, i was getting the distinct impression one batch lasts a really long time.

i got 20 gm (2 tablespoons) from origamipapermonster, and i can't have made over a dozen sheets of double tissue.
I stopped folding for a couple of years for various reasons and have started up again. I have a batch of MC from back then that still seems to be fine. It was in a mason jar. Still feels slimy and I used it to patch a rip in a thin sheet. Works fine.
Baltorigamist
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by Baltorigamist »

So I've only treated a couple sheets so far, but they've both peeled away from the acrylic as they dried. I've been putting enough MC on the acrylic and paper (once between each layer and once on top), but I thought the paper was supposed to stick to the acrylic. Instead, it seems the mulberry is expanding more than the unryu--to the tune of about a centimeter. Am I doing something wrong?
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bethnor
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Re: MC - Methyl Cellulose

Post by bethnor »

^^^^ where are you letting it dry?

for awhile i let my stuff dry in the garage, and i had lots of problems with paper peeling away as it dried. once i took it inside, the problem went away. probably has to do with variations in humidity that occurs outdoors.
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