Satoshi Kamiya - Wizard

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » February 26th, 2008, 1:39 pm

Well, living in a RICH contry where you can easily spend 50$ for your lunch I guess it is a bit difficult to open your eyes more wide and see a reality, that in some (and many) countries it takes months to earn that money. Then surely you don't buy a book instead of your meal and anything else.

Jonnycakes · Post by **Jonnycakes** » February 26th, 2008, 2:10 pm

Just for clarification, what country are we talking about here where you can spend $50 on lunch? That is pretty ridiculous...

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » February 26th, 2008, 2:26 pm

Have you ever been in Paris, Rome or Brussels? Go have a lunch there and you'll see. It doesn't mean that you HAVE to spend that money neither that is unavoidable, but you surely CAN and I'm not talking about something exceptional.
Not sure about US. OK make it 20 or 10 but it doesn't change the point.

Gadi Vishne · Post by **Gadi Vishne** » February 26th, 2008, 2:29 pm

The exact number is not relevant.
Compare the GDP between the countries to get his point.

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » February 26th, 2008, 2:37 pm

Exactly.
Now, compare US with Philippines. Would you buy an origami book for 700$? I really doubt it.

JeossMayhem · Post by **JeossMayhem** » February 26th, 2008, 5:22 pm

But that does that fact still justify stealing? It's just the way the world works...

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » February 26th, 2008, 5:33 pm

Stealing is really an act that is difficult to justify. But stealing is also a question of attitude. Don't you feel yorself stealing a mans work time when you buy something ridiculously cheap from the 3rd world? Or do you think you are of the better sort of people? Don't you steel from nature hunting just for fun?
If you feel yourself so virtuous - be so generous come and buy the book for the people who can't afford it instead of sarcastically judging them as you do...

Jonnycakes · Post by **Jonnycakes** » February 26th, 2008, 10:40 pm

You are judging people because they are from certain countries for judging people for being from certain countries. Stealing is stealing, and you certainly can't justify it by accusing people of not buying you things.

Because someone can buy a $10 lunch or because they can go hunting does not mean that they do or that they are bad people. And other people doing wrong certainly doesn't justify doing it yourself.

Vykintas73 · Post by **Vykintas73** » February 26th, 2008, 10:48 pm

I'm not judging you or anyone else for that matter. I'm just trying to suggest you try to look at the things from a another perspective. OK let's quit it - we went too much off top.

Post by **origami_8** » February 26th, 2008, 11:04 pm

I just want you to give something to think about. The question wasn't about the whole book or even a whole diagram, no it was just about two pages in the middle of a 14 pages long diagram. So why does he want especially these two pages in the middle of nowhere? Maybe he owns a copy of the book and his pages got corrupted somehow, maybe they are sticking together or something like this. Ever thought about this?

I own a children's book. Since many many years one page was missing and I wanted to get this page so badly that I was willing to buy the book again. But unfortunately it was long time out of print and I just couldn't find it. A year ago I found a copy at eBay and I'm really glad I bought it just for this one page also if the book is in a very bad condition, but that doesn't matter. I cut out the missing page and glued it into my old book. Now it's complete again

qtrollip · Post by **qtrollip** » February 27th, 2008, 12:19 am

Ok, I apologise for stirring this topic by implying that people work harder to afford to buy a copyrighted material instead of asking for it for free. It is just that for some people THAT is their job. Some people rely on origami for an income, thus taking their hard work for free would be equivalent to you (wherever in the world you are) to work for free. It is the same as doing a hard job (and doing it extremely well) and not getting paid for it!
I hope that makes sence!
Another way of looking at it would be like this: maybe an author has spent alot of money in his/her life to buy origami books. Now that he/she is good enough to publish a work of their own, they can make some money out of it as a reimbursement for their money spent. So it is like paying tuition fees at school to one day use that knowlege to earn money from. Like an investment.
So to me, taking another persons hard work/investments for free is just wrong, no matter who, what or where you are!

JeossMayhem · Post by **JeossMayhem** » February 27th, 2008, 12:25 am

I have noticed lots of people ask for pages 188 and 189 of Kamiya's book. One individual hassled me on my blog to get me to scan her copies. And everyday I get hits from people putting "Works of Satoshi Kamiya Page 188-189" into their search engines. Obviously, there are incomplete diagrams floating around the net... We weren't totally unwarranted to deny help.

Gadi Vishne · Post by **Gadi Vishne** » February 27th, 2008, 6:47 am

A few weeks ago someone put in this forum link to RAR file with this book (his post removed very quickly). This archive file contains all the book excluding pages 188-189.

steal = take another's property without permission.

Is it bad to steal?
What if the other person will not lose anything?
Download book to decide if I want to buy it or not. Is it stealing?
Download book that cost more than my income for year (I won't buy it!). Is it stealing?
Download book that is already out of print?
...

Our world is not only black and white, it's mostly gray.
On this subject the forum rules are black and white.

merli · Post by **merli** » February 27th, 2008, 9:43 am

OK ... To get things to the right way. There is on Internet scan of book Works Of Satosi Kamiya without those two pages and everyone knows it. (As there are scans of almost all good origami books). Someone accidentally forgot to scan those two pages. You can easily find and download this book in 15 minutes. And (now is solution to get those two pages) you can also easily find and download in 15 minutes Origami Tanteidan magazine 77 where is Kamiya's wizard in slightly other numbered diagrams. To find out where I don't tell just find it yourself. But this book is soooooo good that is worth to buy. I personally have scan of this book and I enjoy it so much that I am going to order it same way as I already have Issei Super Complex Origami or Montroll books. OK. Another approach why is "stealing" (stealing in quotes because nothing is really stolen) so popular. You know pepole are lazy kind of animals. What is easier? To find the shop with book, get some credit card from bank (in some coutries it is still no easy to get one), create some paypal account, then order the book and wait for 3 weeks when it comes across the ocean then go to the customs office by car (bus) and finally get it .... or just click and download it, as I told in 15 minutess? I don't want to aplologize anyone else, I personally have plenty of Origami book printed as I have also many downloaded, but from those downloaded are some so good that I am going to order them ... but maybe if I did not have them downloaded, and did not have possibility to get my hands to fold something from those books ... maybe I would not buy them anyway. .... So think about it ...

Gadi Vishne · Post by **Gadi Vishne** » February 27th, 2008, 10:31 am

merli wrote:... I enjoy it so much that I am going to order ... some so good that I am going to order them ...

Well, did you already ordered book that you downloaded before?

In my opinion, any copy of digital book that cause you not to buy the book itself is stealing.