Joseph Wu: Sus Scrofa

[Ondrej.Cibulka]

That comes close to defeating the purpose of crease patterns!

I thought that CP is usually created cos it needs much less time to draw than whole diagram. So it is helpful step for creator who is busy.

Spending time figuring them out is supposed to be part of the fun.

You must believe me, it is NOT a fun for me. I have been folding your boar for several months and I can see that I am not so skillful folder to finished it so I need help.

[Joseph Wu]

CPs were created as a way for designers to document their own work. They later became ways for designers to share ideas with each other. More recently, people started releasing them for people to try. I think the rationale was that it would keep people from complaining too much that diagrams were not available.

So, in that sense, the purpose of CPs that have been released is for people to try to figure them out themselves. Whether or not it's fun might be a matter of opinion, but the process of figuring them out is integral to the concept of CPs.

[Ondrej.Cibulka]

The evolution of CP is now much clearer for me. You are an author of origami so you know things about it. I am folder and I would like to be perfect folder. Someone could be a purist (one uncut square), I am a perfectionist. Never mind what is the model -- glue, cutting, several peaces -- anyway I would like to fold it in perfect way. Someone here called it "zen finding". Yes, I like it.

I need to tell you, that it was a great fun for me at the beginning, during finding of bristles, head and colapsing of legs. And I finished model with really happy. Then I unfold it and could see that my hint legs are in different place than yours. And at this point start frustration.

After your post I have new view on CPs, I started to think about it from different angle. I understand recent way to releasing of CPs, so called "chalenge". I respect it but I do not like it. I started to fold wild boar not for "chalenge", but cos I like that model and diagram is not available and I would like to draw diagram for everyone (I have it up to creating creases of the back side of the model).

Previous is something different, what I would like to say. I understand of CP concept now. But anyway I do not understand to your attitude towards my request. I feel that it is too hard for me to colapse it in right way. It is clearly visible that I need a help. Why do you not help me in any way. I can e.g. post photo with specific one point in colapsing and you can say: "Yes, it is right way/no, try something else."

For example, the triangle part in this picture, is the right way to hide it as note? The crease start at point of front leg. The same about colapsing of tail part.



You invited us to NY to convention where you will teach your folding way. For many people from the whole world is (if not absolutely impossible) very complicated to go there. Where is the problem to teach someone by internet? It is very similar as at convention.

It is also very hard to force ME to tell someone some kind of personal secret, but my small son (recently 6 months) emotionally change me and I am more obliging now. Maybe I understand to you, but anyway I would like to ask you: help me please with your designs. I love it very much.

[rokonacdc]

i am sorry Ondrej i cannot even get the bristles on the boar but i do have every single crease creased i tryed to get the bristles but i think i need a bigger piece of paper than my 6 inch kami. I am not very skilled at small things and the creases on my paper are very small

[wolf]

I am folder and I would like to be perfect folder. Someone could be a purist (one uncut square), I am a perfectionist. Never mind what is the model -- glue, cutting, several peaces -- anyway I would like to fold it in perfect way.

I'll butt in here for a bit - in my experience, even for diagrammed models, what you see in the diagram is sometimes slightly different from what the designer has done for the original model. Most designers do not plan everything down to the last step - rather, the planning stops at the CP layout of the base. Everything else from this point is detail, and the folds used to achieve that vary from designer to designer, and a lot of it are spur-of-the-moment folds - you do what seems 'right' at that point. These detailing folds are extremely hard to explain in terms of conventional origami notation, and often equally hard to diagram. About the only way to do it perfectly, ie just as the designer has done it, is to watch and follow the designer as he folds it.

Even if a designer were to diagram a model, sometimes he will sacrifice some details for ease of diagramming, which means that the model you fold from the diagram will not be an exact replica of what the designer has originally folded.

And many times, the designer himself may not remember the exact detailing folds that were used for a particular prototype of a model. So the details that you see on a display model may be different from how it's done on a teaching, or some other, more recent, model.

If you're lucky, someone may make a video of Joe teaching his model, and he may grant permission for this video to be publicly posted. Otherwise, you'll have to rely on your own folding skills, your intuition, and the community of folders, to get this model to a satisfactory conclusion.

[Ondrej.Cibulka]

First post reply was very long, I shorted it:
I cannot imagine the base of that boar.

These detailing folds are extremely hard to explain in terms of conventional origami notation, and often equally hard to diagram.

I know several diagrams with very strange folds and they are diagrammed in some way and it is possible to fold it. I would like to draw it in similar way.

he may grant permission for this video to be publicly posted. .

This is the point to which I absolutely cannot understand. Why not? Why permission? What?

the community of folders, to get this model to a satisfactory conclusion.

If community contains the author I can contact directly author. Or not? Why? He do not want to help me? Why?
OK I know -- I am very naive but that is me.

[Ondrej.Cibulka]

i need a bigger piece of paper than my 6 inch kami.

I advice you to use bigger sheet of paper... But as we can see in galeries it is possible to fold so small things.

[rokonacdc]

i dont have any bigger f paper except printer paper which is 8.5 in

[wolf]

I know several diagrams with very strange folds and they are diagrammed in some way and it is possible to fold it. I would like to draw it in similar way.

I know of several models with extremely strange folds and cannot be diagrammed or even explained in a clear manner.

This is the point to which I absolutely cannot understand. Why not? Why permission? What?

There are many reasons, particularly for professional folders. One of which is that, anything put up on the web will inevitably get stolen and sold at some point, often without any attribution to the original author, diagrammer, etc. There's sharing, and there's also intellectual property rights. The latter is a bit more important if you're trying to make a living off what you do.

If community contains the author I can contact directly author. Or not? Why? He do not want to help me? Why?

Because said author can often be swamped by tons of email for help requests, etc. If he were to spend time answering each and every one of them satisfactorily, there won't be any time left for anything else.

[Joseph Wu]

In this case, the answer is much more basic: I haven't folded the boar in more than 2 years. I don't remember all of the steps. Even now, as I prepare to go to the OUSA convention, I am unfolding an old one to make sure I get it right.

And, financial considerations aside, my personal philosophy of origami focuses on the creative process. I'm not interested in perfectly duplicating my own designs, much less having others perfectly duplicate them. Sus scrofa was inspired by seeing KAMIYA Satoshi's okkotonushi (boar god). Before I saw the diagrams or the CP for that model, I tried to come up with a boar of my own. I'm glad you like the resulting model, Ondrej, but I'd be happier if it inspired you to design your own boar than if you were able to duplicate it perfectly.

Having said that, I must say that my decision to teach Sus scrofa at the OUSA convention this year was based entirely on your attempts to fold it. I wasn't sure if I was going to teach a complex model this year. However, knowing that I needed some extra incentive to review the model in order to answer your questions, I told the OUSA convention organizers that I would teach this model. After I finish reverse-engineering my own design, I'll do my best to answer your questions. Until I finish, I don't remember it well enough to do so.

Also, I knew very well that many people on this forum wouldn't be able to go to the OUSA convention. However, since we are discussing this model here, I thought I'd make the announcement anyway. I'm sorry if I offended anyone by doing so.

[Joseph Wu]

Oh, and, yes, I retain all rights to my designs and I protect those rights vigorously. Please do not publish ANY instructions for my designs without my permission. Thanks.

[Joseph Wu]

Working on it now. So far, I can tell you that your second way of collapsing the tail is close to the way I do it. Note that what you have done results in a colour change on the tail. You can rearrange the layers to prevent the colour change.

Oh, and I'd like to thank you, Ondrej, for getting me to try this model again. The folding process contains a number of weird moves that are a lot of fun to fold. The formation of the legs (including the photo you posted with the orange triangle) is especially strange, and I'm enjoying myself very much as I rediscover how it all works. I'll post some photos of step folds, probably after I get back from NYC.

Wolf is quite right: diagramming the leg formation would be VERY frustrating (I hesitate to say impossible). The finishing steps are actually easier to diagram.

[esato]

I am impressed by how nice and kind you are, Mr Wu!

[rockmanex6]

teach hipocampos

[Joseph Wu]

The hippocampus is a one-off. No one, not even me, will be doing that one again. Oh, and it's been bought by Hangar-7 in Salzburg.