Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

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Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby Lephantome92 » September 15th, 2015, 3:24 am

I tried making a grid to fold a dandelion (120*120, to be exact), but the finer the grid got, the more the layers started falling apart. I used quite a bit of wallpaper glue when I was making the sheet, yet this still happened. Is there a way to fix it or a workaround that I can at least fold the grid, or is the problem just that it was such a fine grid, and there's little to nothing that can be done?
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby origamipete » September 16th, 2015, 10:18 am

yeah, I think you've gone beyond what double tissue can take.
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby Edg » September 16th, 2015, 4:55 pm

If you use PVA glue the bond will be much stronger, though the paper will have a different feel to it. I've never tried spray adhesive, but I imagine that gives a strong bond than MC as well.
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby steingar » September 16th, 2015, 7:06 pm

I've not had tissue foil made with spray glue delaminate for anything ever.
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby Lephantome92 » September 16th, 2015, 8:57 pm

Thank you for the suggestions! Though one more question I have: in my research if Elmer's Glue-All is PVA, I found a lot of "Yes, it is" "No, it isn't." Can anyone give a more definitive answer?
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby HankSimon » September 16th, 2015, 9:18 pm

According to Google, Elmer's Glue-All is PolyVinyl acetate. They may have a more appropriate glue.

http://www.instructables.com/answers/Wh ... nd-Elmers/

http://www.elmers.com/

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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby Raptorex55 » September 16th, 2015, 9:30 pm

My suggestion would be to use a higher concentration of Methyl Cellulose or Wallpaper Glue. Elmer's glue will be definitely be a higher concentration, but I'm not sure how well it will bond through both sheets because the consistency is much thicker. To alleviate this, you can paint side, let it dry, flip it over and then coat the other side with MC too. You'll get a stronger bond between. I wouldn't suggest foil. In my experience, foil has a tendency to begin peeling after heavy use; especially after large grids.
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby origami_8 » September 16th, 2015, 10:12 pm

Another factor you might want to consider apart from the glue, is the paper. Bleeding tissue paper binds together far more easily than non-bleeding paper. It also lets the MC soak through, so that you only have to apply a layer on top, instead of in between. The downside however is, that it bleeds, so you can not have two different colours. For many models this won't be that much of a problem but for others it might be.
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby Lephantome92 » October 20th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Just as an update: I've tried the PVA glue, and either I didn't use enough or something I can't tell, but it's beginning to fall apart after a 60*60 grid. I'm gonna finish a simpler version of the model with that, then work on one with spray glue.
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby bobzomgville » October 21st, 2015, 4:45 pm

Hmm, I have no Idea what's going on for you but whenever I make grids that large they don't fall apart. I believe Tim Rickman uses double tissue almost exclusively for his folding. His gallery is here. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12300
Maybe you can ask him how he makes his stuff.
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby Lephantome92 » October 21st, 2015, 9:07 pm

bobzomgville wrote:Hmm, I have no Idea what's going on for you but whenever I make grids that large they don't fall apart. I believe Tim Rickman uses double tissue almost exclusively for his folding. His gallery is here. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12300
Maybe you can ask him how he makes his stuff.

I sent him a message on Facebook asking what his secret is (He seems to update there very frequently), so hopefully he'll respond shortly. As far as your secret, do you simply use a strong concentration of MC? In case you're curious, it's from a 19"/50cm square
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby bobzomgville » October 24th, 2015, 8:57 pm

Sorry this response is really late.
anyways...
Tim Rickman actually did make a tutorial on his double tissue. He uses Papyrus Tissue paper and GH 57 wallpaper paste (I know because I use it as well). I'm fairly sure it has MC already in it. Ironically, it also works really well for making tissue foil which is why I use it. It's just easier to keep track of.
The tutorial is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID_OlcP0EAI

Now addressing your problem. If you mean the sheets are separating maybe you could apply extra glue to the edges of the sheet so the two papers have a hard time separating. That will probably work. Good Luck!
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Re: Double Tissue Grid Falling Apart

Postby Lephantome92 » October 25th, 2015, 4:56 am

Thanks for the advice. I actually managed to contact Tim through his facebook origami page, and I learned that I watered down my paste WAAAAAAAAAY too much. He does it more or less 1:1, whereas I had more like 1/5 of the paste, if that. I'm almost done with the model using paper that I made with spray glue to see how it works, but I plan on making paper as Tim does and make the model again just to see how different it feels
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