Origami Roses - Read Me!

GiantCrab · Post by **GiantCrab** » September 1st, 2005, 7:52 am

Hey, everyone!

I've attempted to fold the Winson Chan version of the Kawasaki Rose, and I am currently on Step 25. I've attempted to do an outside reverse fold, but it doesn't seem to want to fold. Any help?

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » September 2nd, 2005, 3:41 am

That step you are asking is the one that makes the whole rose to hold.

When it says it is a reverse fold, is because you reverse the paper inside out. similarly as doing a closed sink. You have to do this very carefully or the paper would tear and you would loose all that pre-creassing.

GiantCrab · Post by **GiantCrab** » September 2nd, 2005, 5:59 pm

Ok, so I've managed to somewhat turn the paper inside out. The main problem is that the end of the "leaf" is up, but the part at the base doesn't seem to fold, and it looks nothing like the picture. When I do the reverse fold, it goes out, but doesn't really go up.

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » September 2nd, 2005, 7:58 pm

You lost me with that "up" description. Try to be more specific and maybe I could help you

The only thing that I remember that might be the cause of your problem is that in a previous step when you start folding the "cylinder", there is some part that should be pointing towards one side (I think it is up), make sure you collapsed the cylinder right.

If this is not your problem, again, try to be more specific

GiantCrab · Post by **GiantCrab** » September 2nd, 2005, 10:00 pm

I think you may be correct about the cylinder, because I wasn't sure what it meant by the center pointing up. Could you explain how to fold the cylinder and to check if the center is pointing up?

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » September 3rd, 2005, 2:04 am

Have you checked the page http://anools-origami.tripod.com/downloads.htm by Anool Mahidharia, there are some pictures explaining the steps of the K rose

The thing with the center pointing up in step 20 means that the borders of the paper should point down while the center of the paper should remain up. If you do not do this step carefully you still end up with a cylinder, but a wrong one.

Keep trying and keep asking

GiantCrab · Post by **GiantCrab** » September 3rd, 2005, 3:20 am

Hey, those pictures helped quite a bit! I'm pretty sure I have the cylinder done correctly, since it looks like the pictures. However, now I'm stuck on step 24. I have Winson Chan's version 2.3 with the step 24 corrected. I find that I can't do the reverse fold without moving one more square to the lower right. Is this correct even in Chan's version 2.3? Are the four tips supposed to touch the center, or are they supposed to be a little bit above it?

Aurèle · Post by **Aurèle** » September 3rd, 2005, 8:23 am

the new english version does contain the same models, which are all very impressives and interesting: explanations for the rose with 22.5 degrees angle are perfectly clear (I succed in folding it the first time I read this diagram).

JMcK wrote:So the English version of Rose, Origami and Mathematics has finally been released.

Here are a couple of links to descriptions of the original Japanese version of the book:
David Lister
HATORI Koshiro

I don't know for sure if the new English version has exactly the same diagrams.

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » September 4th, 2005, 11:51 pm

GiantCrab wrote:Hey, those pictures helped quite a bit! I'm pretty sure I have the cylinder done correctly, since it looks like the pictures. However, now I'm stuck on step 24. I have Winson Chan's version 2.3 with the step 24 corrected. I find that I can't do the reverse fold without moving one more square to the lower right. Is this correct even in Chan's version 2.3? Are the four tips supposed to touch the center, or are they supposed to be a little bit above it?

All I could find was version 2.1 but i remember there is a mistake of one sqare more than it is actually shown in the instructions. Maybe the error was not fixed in version 2.3 By the way where is this version?

GiantCrab · Post by **GiantCrab** » September 5th, 2005, 5:27 pm

Well, version 2.3 is at this website:

http://www.ensc.sfu.ca/undergrad/euss/e ... page6.html

I believe it is corrected at step 24, and I think that I have done step 24 correctly. It results in a noticeably large hole in the middle, and it doesn't seem to get as small as Anool's hole, even if I pull on the tabs. However, I'm still where I started, stuck on step 26.

I still don't understand how to get from this step:

[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/GiantCrab/0600.jpg[/img]

To this step:

[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/GiantCrab/0620.jpg[/img]

In the first picture, the person's thumb is one square down? If you could explain exactly which creases get used, that would be excellent, because it doesn't make sense going from the first picture to the second.

Where do the circled red spot and the green lines in the next picture match in the first picture?

[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/Gi ... oblem0.jpg[/img]

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » September 5th, 2005, 8:55 pm

You made me do a rose that I was too lazy to do but it is good to remember how it is done.

Fisrt the whole in the middle of the model has to be very small. If yours is not very small it is either because you are not pulling the flaps enough or because the grid does not align very well due to some folds a little out of place. Try pulling opposite flaps at once.

The step you are stuck at is the one that everybody gets stuck at. It is confusing and I guess I would have never understood it just by looking at the diagrams (someone showed me how to do it). Diagrams call it a reverse fold but to me it is more a closed sink. The first picture shows how the model looks like after you do the valley fold from step 26. When you do this you get a corner beneath that flap (the other side of the corner that is shown by the picture) what you have to do is to close sink that corner. Actually it is more like a closed unsink since the corner points down. That's all you have to do. It is difficult and you have to be very careful or the paper will tear.

Good luck and if you are still stuck PM me and give me your email address so I can send you a picture

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » September 6th, 2005, 10:01 pm

I made a video explaining this complicated 26 th step. It can be downloaded from http://www.angelfire.com/co/cubo/images/Step26.avi

Post by **origami_8** » September 12th, 2005, 9:01 am

I quote a person from another topic:

kenongab wrote:can someone show me how to do step 24 on the Kawasaki rose(in pictures to be clear and if you cant just tell me) thx! i cant understand the diagrams by Winson Chan

I´ve done two little movies. The first one is explaining step 24, the second one is showing how to fold the whole rose after precreasing. You can download them here:
1.) http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0H6S ... 2PTV6E1OTI
2.) http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=276C ... 044L68GUC6

Jorram · Post by **Jorram** » September 13th, 2005, 10:36 am

Oh, thank you

With the help of those movies I finally managed to fold the rose and it's been a challenge for months already!

Really great, thanks again

Though truth to be told, I'm not really impressed with the result. It doesnt really seem all that better than the original Kawasaki Rose to me. It is kinda more realistic, but not impressively so. I don't understand why were the crimp folds so important, they only seem to break and crumple the petals? I understand that they add to the realism, but wasn't there a better way to do that? Well, I'm not really any good at designing so i guess not

Also, this rose seems to be vulnerable to falling totally apart much more easily than the original rose... and you can't attach a stem to it, like to the original one, or did anyone succeed in this? I mean, apart from Joseph Wu's base, which I also intend to use, seems fine to me, but it's just not a stem

Now, if I could only find a way to understand the folding of Phu Thran's rose, stem and leaves...

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » September 13th, 2005, 8:40 pm

Jorram wrote:...Though truth to be told, I'm not really impressed with the result. It doesnt really seem all that better than the original Kawasaki Rose to me. It is kinda more realistic, but not impressively so.

There is something that I have observed from people doing Kawasaki roses: They like better the one they learned first.

If they learned the simple one first they are going to say that all the extra effort is not worth for doing the other one.

But if they have learned the second one first, they won't settle for less, even if they are taught the first one that is simple and nice, they will still prefer the second one.