Satoshi Kamiya - Ryu Zin (CP Study by zebu)

merman · Post by **merman** » March 31st, 2008, 10:45 pm

origamimasterjared wrote:I remember a long time ago, Jason Ku told me that every complex origami artist should have the crease pattern to Kamiya's Ryu-zin. Even if you don't fold it. Just the ingenious use of paper is really quite a feat. So I bought the CP, and well, first was put off by the 80 x 80 box-pleating, but then I did notice the clever way the body is made so long. As Zebu said, it's not symmetrical, not diagonal at all, rather as I remember, the front half of the body is at the top of the CP, and the back half is at the bottom. Some nutty Elias-stretching allows the two opposite edges of the paper to be brought together.

so did you buy the early version or the 3.5 version?

godzebu · Post by **godzebu** » March 31st, 2008, 11:36 pm

Hey Merman,

Based on my research (trust me there were many many many hours of research done on this in my part) there are NO complete CP for Ryu-Zin 3.5 exist for the public. I am merely saying this so that you won’t waste time. 

Having said that, if you, for some un-godly coincident (perhaps you are a word renown Spine Surgeon and you happened to travel to Fiji on Oceanic flight that crash landed on a mystery island where you and few serving members happened to run into the native people of the island who lived and folded Ryu Zin 3.5 with the leader who had a tumor in his spin, which you removed, in exchange of Ryu-Zin 3.5 diagram… who knows right?) happen to come across a break though in regard to Ryu Zin 3.5 please let us know… I am positive more people then you can ever imagine are also looking for it.

origamimasterjared · March 31st, 2008, 11:44 pm

Version 2.1, the only one that was ever for sale. As far as I know there is no released information about version 3.1 (the version from his website). And for version 3.5 all we have is the partial CP for the head and the beginning of the body scales. Getting the scales on the legs, as well as forming the tail is still a mystery.

godzebu · Post by **godzebu** » April 1st, 2008, 12:11 am

I have very good IDEA about the scales on the LEGS.

However, I don't want to release this information just yet.
I want to conduct some partial studies of legs first.

Again, "Credibility" is everything; I want to build up to it.

Haste post in my part will only create garbage. As my friend Rod said "garbage in = garbage out"

Happy folding!

zebu

!tyza!! · Post by **!tyza!!** » April 2nd, 2008, 11:29 pm

so Godzebu, was that Ryuzin 3.5 on your flickr album made by you ? either way it is very impressive in black

godzebu · Post by **godzebu** » April 3rd, 2008, 1:25 am

NO I DID NOT FOLD THE BLACK RYU ZIN 3.5 in my Flikr account.

It was folded by my friend (well, more like advisor to me).

I'm on a personal quest to fold Ryu Zin 3.5 my self, trying to figure it out without too much "free stuff" from people.

I posted that photo to show the size comparison between adult hand and Ryu Zin 3.5 folded using 1.9 M x 1.9 M paper.

As far as what I am doing now.......

1. As mentioned before, I am DONE with the Ryu Zin 3.5 Scale study.
2. Currently I'm trying to figure out the Ryu Zin 3.5 legs and scales on the leg.
3. I do have a good IDEA on how to put the scales on the leg, but I do not want to present that just yet, until I have pictures to show for it.

*You'll know if the model is folded by me because you'll see my wedding ring. This will be my online signature.*

This is really hard and much harder than (no disrespect to SK, I am a hugh fan)I have originally estimated. However, I am making slow but steady progress (very slow indeed). As a scientist, I like to approch this in more systematic, hands on , trial and error method with some solid evidances so people who read this can benefit from it.

And.... as a person who relies TOO MUCH on his memory, I have real bad habit of NOT writing down the procedures and results of "Preliminary studies" (yeah... it made my job more difficult in many many cases)

posting on this forum and flickr "force me" to document the process because I highly doubt that I can Memorize Ryu Zin 3.5... (Although I have memorized SK's Ancient Dragon)

Well, enough with that.

happy folding everyone!

zebu

JUANC · Post by **JUANC** » April 6th, 2008, 3:54 am

hello every one, hey im in the work of deciphering the 2.1 CP, finaly i had made all the hard work. The only thing I´ve found realy confusing is the head can someone help me.... it is the only part missing.

thanks

!tyza!! · Post by **!tyza!!** » April 9th, 2008, 7:46 am

i am pretty much at the same stage as JUANC. i have googled ryujin 2.1, (as well as many other combinations) but i can not find a proper picture of it. All of the ones i've found folded by SK have scales (besides V1.2). does SK have one model folded by him?

dragon man · Post by **dragon man** » April 9th, 2008, 8:04 pm

Good luck and keep us updated on how you go you must very very very patient to do this

Having said that, if you, for some un-godly coincident (perhaps you are a word renown Spine Surgeon and you happened to travel to Fiji on Oceanic flight that crash landed on a mystery island where you and few serving members happened to run into the native people of the island who lived and folded Ryu Zin 3.5 with the leader who had a tumor in his spin, which you removed, in exchange of Ryu-Zin 3.5 diagram… who knows right?) happen to come across a break though in regard to Ryu Zin 3.5 please let us know… I am positive more people then you can ever imagine are also looking for it.

Also that's the first time i've heard LOST on an origami topic

If i'm right in thinking you were talking about LOST

godzebu · Post by **godzebu** » April 9th, 2008, 9:47 pm

Yes Dragon Man,

I was referring to LOST.... as I feel like being part of "ever twisted" storyline of "LOST" as more time I spend on this. Thanks for understanding my off-beat joke.

Now, there was a slight progress on the dorsal scales for the Ryu Zin 3.5.
And it’s not a good one.

Not only I have yet to be able to produce any “creditable” product to show that I have figured out the dorsal scales, I am beginning to believe that Ryu Zin 3.5 is not as similar to 2.1 as I hoped it to be.

Now, the obvious approach I took to bring the “dorsal scale” to reality was to graft scales on the LEG CP of Ryu Zin 2.1….. Initially, I thought I could reorganize the layers that accumulates on top of (where shoulders would be located) legs on Ryu Zin 2.1.

Well, not only it didn’t work (The paper usage for the scales basically shrink the top layer to the point that it would only have 4 toes. At this time, I believe that only way to make dorsal scales are to graft at least 16 units (that will make 4 rows and columns of scales) to Ryu Zin 2.1 CP…. Which may lead to significant changes to 2.1 CP especially around the leg area...(IMHO, of course....)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2401880760/

However, like every failed pilot study I ever conducted in my past, this gave me some new ideas.

1. The real CP for Ryu Zin 3.5 (if it ever exists) should be based on minimum 96 unit due to 16 units requires to make the dorsal scales.

2. The CP of Ryu Zin 3.5 should be significantly different from the 2.1 in the leg (honestly 2.1 legs were not too much different than CP of Ancient dragon by SK… Ancients dragon 4 flaps, Ryu Zin 2.1 had 5 flaps). I mean the general design concept was similar. I believe it will be different for the 3.5.

As I said, it’s not much of a progress but at least I know what NOT TO TRY.

Happy folding everyone!

zebu

qtrollip · Post by **qtrollip** » April 9th, 2008, 10:00 pm

Keep going buddy!

dragon man · Post by **dragon man** » April 11th, 2008, 9:28 pm

You do realise godzebu you'll need therapy after this

godzebu · Post by **godzebu** » April 12th, 2008, 3:42 pm

Dragon Man, I do realize that I will need some sort of therapy for this

However, being a military scientist myself, I'd like to believe I have both physical and mental requirements to do the job... Plus, trust me, this is waaaaay less stressful than what is going in military right now (I will end with that before this become political

).

Hey all,

Here are my latest advance (not much really) in my quest to figuring out 3.5 (I’m just going to mention numbers from now on for different versions of Ryu Zin.)

1. After looking at the CP of 2.1 for awhile, the partial CP of leg jumped out at me. “I’ve seen this before”.. I thought to myself… So I dug around my reference files and noticed that CP of SK’s "Ancient dragon" and 2.1 had a similar layout for its legs.

(Here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407700396/)

There are two major differences between Ancient dragon and 2.1.

First, obviously the number of fingers (for sake of simplicity, let just say Ancient dragon have 4 "flaps" and 2.1 have 5.)

Second, legs of Ancient dragon originate at the underside (belly) of model, meaning its basal end starts at its belly (if you would please) and distal end extend downward (naturally), exposing the flaps to form fingers. Now 2.1 on the other hand, legs originate at the top side of the model, meaning the basal end is attached to model in a shoulder region (if you would please) and almost wraps around the model exposing 5 flaps to form the fingers. This is why some of my previous posts mention something about adding scales to “shoulder regions……”

2. When you fold the CP of legs for 2.1, it becomes very clear where should scales be added.

(Here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2406867693/) I highly encourage you all to try the leg CP of 2.1, is quite easy.
Here are photo directions I made

(Here are the links)
Step 1 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407006391/
Steps 2 and 3 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407840020/
Steps 4, 5, and 6 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407840038/
Steps 7 and 8 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407840062/
Steps 9 and 10 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407006483/
Steps 11 and 12 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407840102/

3. Finally (for today), I drew up some idea for 3.5 leg CP (again, I rather do this in my head so diagram isn’t perfect.. it is just a visual illustration to get my point across). I would like to extend my challenge to you all to try this idea and (perhaps post pictures) what you all came up with.
(Here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/8877661@N03/2407700438/)

That’s it for today (and for awhile...

)

Happy folding everyone!

zebu

chesslo · Post by **chesslo** » April 12th, 2008, 10:20 pm

wow, keep on going zebu, no pain no game

JeossMayhem · Post by **JeossMayhem** » April 12th, 2008, 11:07 pm

Hahaha.

I think it's no pain, no gain. But yea, what he said.