Copyright...again...

Need help with folding a model? Ask here.

Postby malachi » July 6th, 2005, 7:02 am

I'm just not clear on exactly how the copyright laws apply to the models produced from a published diagram.
User avatar
malachi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: December 18th, 2004, 9:19 pm
Location: Tennessee

Postby TheRealChris » July 6th, 2005, 9:50 am

malachi wrote:I'm just not clear on exactly how the copyright laws apply to the models produced from a published diagram.


a similar question would be: "why can't I just copy a movie that has already been published?"
:)


Christian
TheRealChris
Moderator
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: May 17th, 2003, 1:01 pm
Location: Germany

Postby malachi » July 6th, 2005, 3:15 pm

I don't think so, I think a similar question would be, "Why can't I put on this play that I bought a copy of the script for?" or, "Why can't I perform this song that I bought the sheet music for?"
User avatar
malachi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: December 18th, 2004, 9:19 pm
Location: Tennessee

Postby malachi » July 6th, 2005, 4:24 pm

To clarify, I think the origami example comperable to copying a movie that you "bought" would be making a copy of a diagram in a book that you have. I have a clear understanding of the copyright implications of copying the pages of a book. The issues around the crafting of a model are less clear to me.

If origami followed the movie copying example, then it would be a violation of copyright law to fold a model from a diagram in a book and give it to someone else.

As I have said before, I think it is more reasonable to compare origami to sewing or basket weaving. If I buy a pattern for a shirt and then I make a shirt based on that pattern, I believe that I can sell that without having to get special permission or share the money gained.
User avatar
malachi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: December 18th, 2004, 9:19 pm
Location: Tennessee

Postby TheRealChris » July 6th, 2005, 6:37 pm

I don't think, that it's legal to print copyright protected stuff onto a shirt...


Christian
TheRealChris
Moderator
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: May 17th, 2003, 1:01 pm
Location: Germany

Postby malachi » July 6th, 2005, 9:47 pm

I'm not talking about a copyright protected design on a shirt, I'm talking about the pattern to make the shirt itself.
User avatar
malachi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: December 18th, 2004, 9:19 pm
Location: Tennessee

Postby wolf » July 12th, 2005, 3:23 am

malachi wrote:"Why can't I perform this song that I bought the sheet music for?"

Because there is a section in the US Copyright code that actually deals with this situation: Exclusive rights and exemptions. :D

I suspect the situation might be the same for origami designs.
User avatar
wolf
Forum Sensei
 
Posts: 733
Joined: June 7th, 2003, 7:05 pm
Location: Not locatable in this Universe

another boring post about copyright

Postby EricGjerde » August 3rd, 2005, 5:37 pm

I think the whole subject of copyright with regards to origami is a complicated one- most people would rather just have honest common-sense usage agreements (I developed model X, so if you're using it for a commercial reason pay me something for me time. otherwise, for your school group, be my guest). The problem here is that humans are human- sooner or later someone decides to take advantage of someone's largess and rip them off, either subtly or blatantly. So how do we avoid this? It's a matter of walking a fine line that nobody ends up being happy with.

I think that the reality of the situation is only decided by what a bunch of high-priced lawyers come up with, and whoever spends more $$$ on the argument will likely win. I also think most people are cognizant of what they are doing, and are aware that their actions either are decent or not. the whole legal business of this is tiresome.

The answer for me, but certainly not everyone, is the Creative Commons license. There are numerous variants of it available, but all of them are essentially a legal codifying of "common sense" usage policies.

Thusly, all the diagrams that I have released so far have been under the CC Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.0 license. this means the following:

    Attribution: You must give the original author credit.
    Noncommercial: You may not use this work for commercial purposes.
    No Derivative Works: You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.

This is a relatively restrictive license, but it works for my purposes. it allows people to freely use this for any purpose of a non-commercial nature, while maintaining my legal rights of ownership and control. a good deal.
EricGjerde
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Joined: July 31st, 2005, 5:43 am
Location: Strasbourg

Re: another boring post about copyright

Postby hunprat » August 5th, 2005, 5:34 am

EricGjerde wrote:No Derivative Works: You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.


Derivative works are everywhere in origami. Kind of hard to argue that all your work is totally original and no part are derive from other people earlier models. I am guessing here, since I don't know any of your work.
But to limit people from modifying a base of one of your design to come up with something new is quite strict and you probably can not enforce, because I am pretty sure they can find other models by other designers that have similiar bases.

Phu
Last edited by hunprat on August 5th, 2005, 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
hunprat
Newbie
 
Posts: 22
Joined: October 30th, 2004, 6:53 am

good point.

Postby EricGjerde » August 5th, 2005, 5:43 am

that's very true, my work (while original to me) is certainly duplications of work by others.

the Derivative works statement here is referencing the document itself, and not the creations inside- I guess I never thought people would think I was stating that they could not artistically create derivative works of things I had come up with. I just assumed people would do that anyway.

I think perhaps I'll have to revisit that decision, or at least make it more clear that I'm merely trying to restrict people monkeying with my diagram documents, and not restricting origami creativity.

(it's not like I think my diagrams are all hot stuff, because they really suck, but I'd still be ticked to find someone selling them rather than just passing them on for free, which was my main intent.)

and on an unrelated note, Phu, your rose is a magnificent piece of art! I hope to see one in person sometime soon.
EricGjerde
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Joined: July 31st, 2005, 5:43 am
Location: Strasbourg

furthermore...

Postby EricGjerde » August 5th, 2005, 5:47 am

on thinking a bit further, this also comes to mind- if I remove the derivative works statement (because now I see it's probably quite misleading and confusing) but add the ShareAlike clause, then I think I'm still no better off as the ShareAlike is a "poison pill"- like the GPL for computer code.

I'm going to really have to ponder this one a bit, and see exactly how I feel I can protect my interests (such small interests!) while being as free as I want to be. I'm glad you raised this point for me to think about.

-Eric
EricGjerde
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Joined: July 31st, 2005, 5:43 am
Location: Strasbourg

Postby wolf » August 29th, 2005, 2:43 pm

moik wrote:Is it ok to assume that designs found freely on the internet are (unless stated otherwise) allowed to be reproduced elsewhere?

Designs found freely on the 'net can be copyrighted as well. In any case, it's good form to ask the owner of the diagram/website first.

moik wrote:And what about the situation where you come across a design (by being shown it by a friend or something) and have no idea who it was created by or how publicly available it's supposed to be?

As with other copyrighted things, ignorance isn't an excuse. You'll need to make a "good faith" effort to identify the creator and find out the reproduction conditions. With the large number of subscribers to the origami-l mailing list, as well as forum users here, if you post a photo of the model, chances are good that someone will be able to identify it for you, especially if you can also describe how it is folded (what base, etc).
User avatar
wolf
Forum Sensei
 
Posts: 733
Joined: June 7th, 2003, 7:05 pm
Location: Not locatable in this Universe

Postby mastermattdude » July 26th, 2006, 8:40 pm

On the site http://www.zazzle.com you can make custom t-shirts. I was wondering if it is legal to put 2 pictures of origami models ( maybe Satoshi's or Hojyo's) on a shirt because Hojyo's pictures from the web have the copyright thingy on them. I would only be making one shirt, thats not too bad is it? :? I know Chris said something about this earlier , but I want to be sure.
User avatar
mastermattdude
Junior Member
 
Posts: 113
Joined: September 2nd, 2005, 12:18 am
Location: new york , usa

Postby Joseph Wu » July 26th, 2006, 8:44 pm

Copyright thingy or not, the photos are copyrighted to the owner. That's covered in international law. So, no, it's not all right. Besides, how hard is it to ask first? The worst that could happen is that they'll say no...
Yes, I am that Joseph Wu. Not that it really matters. And please call me Joseph or Joe. "Mr. Wu" is my dad. :)
User avatar
Joseph Wu
Senior Member
 
Posts: 443
Joined: April 18th, 2005, 7:27 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Postby Friet » July 26th, 2006, 9:35 pm

They'll probably just think it's really cool that somewhere in the world someone is wearing a shirt with a picture of their model on it :)
Friet
Senior Member
 
Posts: 264
Joined: April 1st, 2005, 5:29 pm
Location: Zwolle, The Netherlands

PreviousNext

Return to Diagrams & Crease Patterns

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests