Improvement of the ODB

Looking for a specific model? Here's the place to start.
User avatar
denori
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: February 14th, 2005, 11:26 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by denori »

Saj wrote: I think you're right here mate. I was also thinking of better Amazon UK|FR|DE|US intergration, rather than the box on the left we can have a URL purchase field so that users can buy the book directly from Amazon.
It's already there, but I'm using Amazon US, UK, DE and JP.
If you look at the book contents you get the options to buy it from there plus a link to other online bookshops (I need to add ABE to this and possibly a Ebay RSS link link. I've seen it done elsewhere, so I know it's possible!). BTW, the Amazon .co.jp is the 'wrong' size because I thought it might be easier if it actually showed the picture. The others don't need that!
Saj wrote: I was also thinking of smart searches, where users can bookmark their results (this is possible at the moment too, but most users used the 'cloaked' version of the address). Intergrating RSS into the news section would be nice, as well as a subscribeable iCal link (for us Google Calendar users). We could do this by opening a Origami Database Google account.
Some good ideas there Saj!
Daydreamer wrote: Since we have the "My Library" function, wouldn't it be an idea to add a feature like "Ask question to book-owners" so that if you have a specific question about the book

As you rightly point out, this could/would be abused for diagram requests. I'd rather just persuade people to write some reviews. There are only about 12 reviews on the site at the moment (out of 2000+ items). And the facility has been there at least a year!
User avatar
Alexandre
Senior Member
Posts: 341
Joined: December 14th, 2005, 5:42 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by Alexandre »

Code: Select all


*creators
-first name
-last name
-biography         <--------

*resources
-list of creator_identifier (the person(s) who made the book)
-type (book/booklet/magazine/CDROM/website)         <--------
-ISBN / ISSN / URL         <--------
-publishing date (month-year)
-quick summary
-comments

*models
-name         <--------
-traditional name (optional)         <--------
-list of creator_identifier (the person(s) who created the model)
-picture
-paper format (square/$bill/etc..)
-number of pieces (1/2/modular/etc..)
-a list of tags, like "christmas","dinosaur","traditional","action"...
-complexity (simple/(low/mid/high ?? )intermediate/complex)
-cuts or no cuts ??
-glue or no glue ??

*diagrams
-resource_identifier
-model_identifier
-language
-comments
-type (diagram/CP/diagram+CP)
-page of the model in the book
-made with computer/written by hand/photodiagram ??
1) is there any model with cuts or glue ?

2) for the difficulty:
-removing useless data from the current ODB is not an issue, it it can improve the usability of the next ODB. In all cases the database files of the old ODB will not disappear from the earth, we can always get data from it if it's needed. I do not look to just redesign the interface, but I want to make something usable.
-are you ready, if you look for intermediate/complex models, to make a research for low int, then for med int, then for high int, then for complex? of in the advances search i can use checkboxes to choose which difficulty from the 5 levels we want to find ? looks boring.
-if you ask to many people to rate a model between 3 levels of difficulty, maybe 70-80% will say give the same answer, but with 5 levels, not more that 40-45% of people will give the same answer. for me, the difficulty just depend of the experience of the folder, and 3 levels are enough.
-saj said "It would be relatively easy to program the output such that all varities of intermediate are output as 'Intermediate'. ", so what is the point to use all these intermediate levels ?

3) for the tables, i will use tables but in a clear html code. I am very conscient of all the usability/standards for the web, don't worry for this. CSS alignments/positions (i do not know the good word for this) works fine but I do not have enough experience with that to use it.
Tables are a far smaller problem compared to frames for example. frames for example kill any hope of search engine optimisation, bookmarking etc...

4) for the design and CSS style, saj will be very helpful I think, because he got good skills in this field. He will probably be very useful when the internal development of the ODB will be quite finished.

5) for the names i'm ok for 2 fields, one (first name/given name/forename...) and one (last name/family name...)

6) for "my library", it will be private by default, but I think that origami society would prefer to set this as public, so ppl can see which books they own. http://d307280.p33.patchhost.com/book_c ... 0804815879 in the current ODB, when a books is owned by a society, it's indicated. it's a nice feature, and will be implemented! Currently each society got a special page, like boslib_book.asp for the BOS, i will make this feature generic.

7) for the current amazon ads, yes that's not really pretty. I will use probably some techniques to display a relevant amazon link that depend of the country from which the visitor visit the website (ugly sentence). I am not even sure that it is really useful, I may not pay 1% of the cost of running the website :p I will see that later, it's not the most urgent. but it could be nice if the ODB can see automatically if the book is available on ebay/amazon/sasuga etc and display a link only if it's available.

8) bookmarking results : easy to do if the form of the search page use GET and not POST !

9) news section with RSS/ical: why not ? It will be easy for me to display somewhere the last resources added, if it what what you mean with "news". RSS is dead easy to generate, I easily add this if several people want that.
( NB about ical for saj : iCalendar is a calendar standard, .ical is the common extension for iCalendar files, and iCal is a MacOS application. )

10) that's all for the moment, please comment :-)
User avatar
origami_8
Administrator
Posts: 4371
Joined: November 8th, 2004, 12:02 am
Location: Austria
Contact:

Post by origami_8 »

Alexandre wrote:is there any model with cuts or glue ?
You don´t own many books, do you? There are lots and lots of models out there that use glueing and cutting. And I don´t want to buy books that involve that, so yes, it´s VERY IMPORTANT that the database includes these informations!
Alexandre wrote:in the advances search i can use checkboxes to choose which difficulty from the 5 levels we want to find ? looks boring.
But it would be very useful, especially if you can choose in the advanced search wether to search only one level of difficulty or maybe two or three or all, depending on what you are looking for.
Alexandre wrote:I do not have enough experience with that to use it.
...
User avatar
Alexandre
Senior Member
Posts: 341
Joined: December 14th, 2005, 5:42 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by Alexandre »

origami_8 wrote: You don´t own many books, do you? There are lots and lots of models out there that use glueing and cutting. And I don´t want to buy books that involve that, so yes, it´s VERY IMPORTANT that the database includes these informations!
I own several books, but no one got a model with cuts or glue... and I never said that I wanted to definitively drop this info...
I just searched on the ODB via google and I found 5 or 10 models with cuts or glue so I got my answer.
origami_8 wrote: ...
Thanks for this comment, very useful ! I took a note of it.
User avatar
Daydreamer
Moderator
Posts: 1423
Joined: October 28th, 2005, 2:53 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Post by Daydreamer »

Alexandre wrote:and I never said that I wanted to definitively drop this info...
That's good, because dropping this data (which is already there!) is a big loss of data and definitely won't make the database better.
Alexandre wrote:I just searched on the ODB via google and I found 5 or 10 models with cuts or glue so I got my answer.
Your search was not very thorough then. If you search on the ODB for almost any animal (f.e.) you want you can find at least one or two models with cuts or glue. I'm sure Dennis could easily answer that question by a query on the DB :-)
Especially when it comes to traditional designs cuts are very common.
So long and keep folding ^_^
Gerwin
User avatar
origami_8
Administrator
Posts: 4371
Joined: November 8th, 2004, 12:02 am
Location: Austria
Contact:

Post by origami_8 »

Alexandre wrote:Thanks for this comment, very useful ! I took a note of it.
Sorry, but it was really too tempting to write this after your statement.
User avatar
saj
Moderator
Posts: 388
Joined: April 24th, 2003, 12:57 am
Location: Leicester, UK.
Contact:

Post by saj »

Alexandre wrote:Saj said "It would be relatively easy to program the output such that all varities of intermediate are output as 'Intermediate'. ", so what is the point to use all these intermediate levels ?
This is to ensure that we do not purge any existing data from the database. I have no objections to reducing the difficulty levels down to 3, but what does everyone else think?

Just to clarify the use of [HTML] tables; it's fine to hold data using tables, but for the layout I think <div>s will be quite useful. By making the website more CSS friendly we can also do print-specific style sheets, bypassing the need to create another 'Printer friendly' page.

And Alex, I really need to look into RoR(Ruby on Rails), I've managed to read a little of the eBook, but might need to see some code in action! I'm also wondering whether we can use the Amazon API and intergrate it in the website.

Regarding the calendar - D'oh! I thought iCal used their own format, but I guess not.

And probably the most important point - relates to the power/efficiency of the search function itself. Does RoR provide functions which allows us to do things like:

Code: Select all

Lion -stallion - This should not return Lang's Horse model
Saj
Last edited by saj on April 22nd, 2006, 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you've found the forum useful, please consider making a donation.
User avatar
saj
Moderator
Posts: 388
Joined: April 24th, 2003, 12:57 am
Location: Leicester, UK.
Contact:

Post by saj »

Dennis, do we have a maximum width/height specification for the book cover images?
If you've found the forum useful, please consider making a donation.
User avatar
denori
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: February 14th, 2005, 11:26 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by denori »

Daydreamer wrote: If you search on the ODB for almost any animal (f.e.) you want you can find at least one or two models with cuts or glue. I'm sure Dennis could easily answer that question by a query on the DB :-)
Well I have to respond to THAT ;-)

The ODB currently lists 655 models with cuts and 416 models that require glue.

I'm confident that this is largely due to models being entered without people adding the cuts or glue data. In other words, the values I've quoted are almost certainly low.

As for the argument on 3 levels versus 5 levels, I chose 5 levels for the main reason that the majority of books that rate models use either 3 or 5 levels and if I used 5 then I could enter data from either type of book and the data would match the author's intentions.

Pictures of completed models should be a separate table. There will be more than one picture for each model/diagram.
Similar arguments can be made for diagram comments and resource comments.

However, while splitting models and diagrams would be the 'ideal' solution, but it will cause data entry and maintenance problems. I'd merge them again.

Code: Select all

*resources 
-TITLE  <------------------------ this is probably important ;-)
-list of creator_identifier (the person(s) who made the book) 
-type (book/booklet/magazine/CDROM/website)  
-ISBN / ISSN+Issue / URL / Publisher's number
-quick summary (could include publication details here?)

*reviews
 - resourceID
 - reviewtext
 - submittedby
 - rating

*photos
 - modelID
 - photo
 - folder            <------------- Required for copyright reasons
 - photographer <------------- Required for copyright reasons

*comments
 - ModelID
 - Comment
 - Submittedby
User avatar
Alexandre
Senior Member
Posts: 341
Joined: December 14th, 2005, 5:42 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by Alexandre »

Ok for the 5 levels of difficulty and the cuts/glue ( anna :) )

yes saj <div> is fine :-)
saj wrote:

Code: Select all

Lion -stallion - This should not return Lang's Horse model
And should "lion" return for example "group of lions" ? I could match "nothing or space"+keyword+"s"+"nothing or space" but I think that's better to match everything.
denori wrote: However, while splitting models and diagrams would be the 'ideal' solution, but it will cause data entry and maintenance problems. I'd merge them again.
uh? I will probably use "has_many :through" , cf http://blog.hasmanythrough.com/articles ... -dance-off
It will be fine. In all cases I will experiment and see what is the best solution.

For the comments, I'm not sure if it will link the comments to the models or the diagrams, but your schema seems ok, I may just add the date.

About the review of resources, I am a bit worried about the rating... I don't know. should we allow visitors to rate the resources? the models?

For the photos yes there will be several pics per model, but for the copyright things I let the law experts talk about it :)

About the ISSN+issue in the same field it seems a bit messy. and what is a publisher number ? Is that the beginning of the ISBN or ISSN?
User avatar
denori
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: February 14th, 2005, 11:26 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by denori »

Alexandre wrote: About the review of resources, I am a bit worried about the rating... I don't know. should we allow visitors to rate the resources? the models?
I think that the only rating should be for resources, but even then I'm not sure. The origami community is probably too small and too young. Everyone 'knows' many of the people involve and it could become personal.
Alexandre wrote: About the ISSN+issue in the same field it seems a bit messy. and what is a publisher number ? Is that the beginning of the ISBN or ISSN?
I added the issue to the ISSN as it's often what magazines do to identify a particular issue since ISSN can't do it alone (e.g. 1745-3410-235 would identify issue 235 of the BOS magazine)
Publisher number is a slightly misleading phrase. Before ISBN (or even SBN) many publishers would use their own numbering schemes to identify books. Even today some publishers don't use ISBN (it's not mandatory) and only have their own number on the book (e.g. my edition of Origami Hakabutsushi 1 published in 1979 does not have an ISBN, but the publishers number for this book is 1072-0172-0952)
User avatar
denori
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: February 14th, 2005, 11:26 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by denori »

Some more..... ;-)

There is a width restriction on cover scans of 200 pixels. THis was an arbitrary choice made to save space. If we have more space these restrictions can be relaxed (but for display I'd suggest no larger than 500!)

Same argument for models at the moment it's restircted to 400 pixels on the longest edge, but I'd happily see this relaxed to about 800 if space wasn't an issue.

I've also finally decided to show what I think may be wrong with the current scheme. I've drawn up two flow charts. These demonstrate the decision process and actions required from a user to add data to the database.

Firstly, the existing ODB

http://www.origamidatabase.com/ODBActions.jpg
Image

The new schema

http://www.origamidatabase.com/ODBNewActions.jpg
Image

I have difficulty getting people to do the first set of actions. I don't think anyone will do the second set twice! Would you?
User avatar
saj
Moderator
Posts: 388
Joined: April 24th, 2003, 12:57 am
Location: Leicester, UK.
Contact:

Post by saj »

On the main page I thought it would be nice having just the one form field, think Google. I wondered whether we can use protocols to make the simple search capable of searching much more complex queries, like:

Code: Select all

author: Robert Lang
Which should return all models by Mr Lang, or even protocols like:

Code: Select all

title: Origami Design Secrets
This is comparable to Google's define: and link: feature. I'm sure it is very easy to request such a feature, but the code behind it must be fairly ugly!

Just installed Ruby on Rails on Windows, I'm still getting the hang of it, but I have had some success so far.

Origami Search - I created this last year, a simple front end to the forum and database search.

Saj
If you've found the forum useful, please consider making a donation.
User avatar
Daydreamer
Moderator
Posts: 1423
Joined: October 28th, 2005, 2:53 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Post by Daydreamer »

saj wrote:I wondered whether we can use protocols to make the simple search capable of searching much more complex queries
I'm not sure if it is worth to implement such a feature because I don't think that many people would use it.
A single search field for the simple search is a good idea in my opinion but it would have to search the fields model-name (org. and trans.), author and probably also the tags (categories) so that the searchstring "Lang Moose" will lead to Lang's Moose.
I don't think that anybody would search with "author: Lang title: Moose" instead of "Lang moose". If you want to search like that you can always use the advanced search where the fields should be separated, so that you can search for author "Lang" and model "Moose".
So long and keep folding ^_^
Gerwin
User avatar
David
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Joined: April 12th, 2006, 11:18 pm
Location: Unipresent (at last)

Post by David »

saj wrote:On the main page I thought it would be nice having just the one form field, think Google. I wondered whether we can use protocols to make the simple search capable of searching much more complex queries.
Good idea- the google and amazon simple searches seem to work very well for most things. I guess we could use conacated data strings to make up a single search field- eg
Designer Last, Designer First, Book Title, Model Name.
Then you would not need to include form headings?

You would of course include an "advanced" search option wouldn't you?

The mock up looks good too.

Looked at ruby on wheels/ locomation interesting- but can't face more coding at present!
Please Dennis can you post an updated download of the database.
I will test what implications a concated search string might raise.
Post Reply