To diagram or not to diagram, that's the question.

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To diagram or not to diagram, that's the question.

Postby nonkelgans » August 16th, 2007, 8:10 pm

A previous topic made me wonder why some people don't diagram their designs, I mean, even if you don't want them to be published in your life you could still make them and let them be released after you died. Isn't it a shame to let so many neat models go to the limbo when it's creator dies and leaves no diagrams of it??

I already designed a few models and one of them (a flower) got into a little dutch origami magazine (although they called it a star). I gave it for free because A: I don't make a living from Origami B: I really want that others can enjoy it too.
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Postby xaoslord » August 16th, 2007, 10:21 pm

One word: Time. The more complex the model, the more pictures that you have to draw to illustrate how to fold it. With each fold the shape changes, so it requires a new drawing, requiring you to indicate previous creases, different layers, different sides of the paper, etc. Also, some folders do not use easily identifiable reference points, and may just fold their model with no hard reference points at all. I'm sure there are more reasons, but this should give you an idea why not all models are diagrammed.
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Re: To diagram or not to diagram, that's the question.

Postby origamimasterjared » August 17th, 2007, 2:12 am

nonkelgans wrote:A previous topic made me wonder why some people don't diagram their designs, I mean, even if you don't want them to be published


Two words: It's hard. It takes time and effort. If you fold from a structural/design standpoint (e.g. design from crease pattern), you often have to come up with a completely different way to fold your design. Making good diagrams even if you have a folding sequence in mind takes a lot of time. I've created some very 3-D things. I can't draw in 3D to save my life. So, they are not diagrammed.

Another reason is some of us DON'T WANT to make diagrams at all. The reason I create is not so other people can fold my work. It's for me. I like doing it. Some things I want other people to fold (sometimes instead of me--see all modulars), some I don't. Some things I only want to show/teach to certain people.

And then there are some things that are a waste to diagram. A lot of things are folded much more easily from crease pattern.

I hate diagramming. I do draw diagrams occasionally though.
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Postby A random folder » August 17th, 2007, 3:27 am

I don't even want to know how they would explain Supercomplex Boxpleated things, or those "Godly" Origami Models.
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Postby Oruhito » August 17th, 2007, 3:43 pm

This is a very good question! I think we should be grateful for the diagrams they do give us and live with the CPs! :D But I understand what you mean. When I see such a beautiful or complex model I want the diagrams so badly! But for people like Joisel I think they don't diagram because of the amount of work it takes. But also Joisel is very art based and was a sculptor before origami so he is very much in the mindset of 'art' not being people folding your own designs. But I think it teaches us patience and furthermore an appreciation for what these masters are creating: art. One day these designers will pass and we may never know how satoshi folded Ryu-jin. So you may think it a bad thing when really it is probably best. It is one of those mysteries that fascinate me everyday. By not knowing how the artist folded it, we can further appreciate the art and be dazzled by the wonders of a single sheet of paper.
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Postby rockmanex6 » August 17th, 2007, 4:34 pm

People fold ryujin look some video it show some folds.
Well kamiya is other that fold for himself (some model, some not), notso much other fold his work. It is Bad, think origami should be others to fold. But creator dont want to show it, then it cant force. Charle Esseltin say "once an origami die its forgot" It is right. So but if they dont want show fine, they die they die. 8)

rock

Oruhito wrote:This is a very good question! I think we should be grateful for the diagrams they do give us and live with the CPs! :D But I understand what you mean. When I see such a beautiful or complex model I want the diagrams so badly! But for people like Joisel I think they don't diagram because of the amount of work it takes. But also Joisel is very art based and was a sculptor before origami so he is very much in the mindset of 'art' not being people folding your own designs. But I think it teaches us patience and furthermore an appreciation for what these masters are creating: art. One day these designers will pass and we may never know how satoshi folded Ryu-jin. So you may think it a bad thing when really it is probably best. It is one of those mysteries that fascinate me everyday. By not knowing how the artist folded it, we can further appreciate the art and be dazzled by the wonders of a single sheet of paper.
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Postby Sunburst » August 17th, 2007, 4:46 pm

Well, I think it's important that origami creators diagram, or create CPs, of their models. Even if they won't render them public, at least they won't forget how to fold their models.
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Postby Oruhito » August 17th, 2007, 5:22 pm

yes sunburst I agree that the designer should at least create a CP or diagram for themselves (should they not show them publicly). I can't imagine designing something so complex and then forgetting how to fold it! :D But I still hold to the idea that others not knowing is sort of the magic and excitement of origami.
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Postby Jonnycakes » August 17th, 2007, 6:33 pm

Well, I for one would like to diagram my designs, but I really don't have the means to do so right now. I need to find a good vector graphics program to use-then I can at least make CPs. I have drawn one diagram by hand that I think came out OK, but it is nothing much. I would like other people to be able to fold/comment on my work. But I am very inexperienced compared to the bigger names out there and thus have a different philosophy about the subject.
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Postby HankSimon » August 19th, 2007, 7:39 pm

I think that some people would be happy to have their models diagrammed, but they don't have the resources. They are sculptors, rather than illustrators. I believe that time and representational skills relate to one reason that some CPs are provided instead of diagrams. Clearly, the rest of us are very grateful for what we can get.

This topic has come up before: I am sure that if someone had the talent and patience to create diagrams for model designer, that he or she would have many takers.

J.C. Nolan wrote a wonderful by in 1995, called Creating Origami. It was ahead of its time, and impossible to locate. But he re-diagrammed a number of models with the permission of the creator... and the gratitude of the origami community.

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Postby Finward » August 28th, 2007, 12:29 am

I would love that people fold my designs, but i have a big problem. Time (lazy!!!) and i have drawed only three diagrams, two of them are horrible and the third is well drawn but extremely short and unpublished.

Well, there is a group in yahoo that is suposed to connect creators with diagramers. its not working very well yet, but perhaps its a good option.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origami_exchange/
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Postby Tavin » January 24th, 2011, 12:44 pm

time is the reason I began making videos. Just fold the model one time slowly and film it - done. of course you can put more work in an origami video, but the basic version will also do the job.
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Postby Shanti » January 24th, 2011, 2:37 pm

Hello everyone
I agree that people might not giagram their models because it's a complex process. I have created my first design (it's not as complicated as some), and have found that diagramming it is taking longer than it took to actually design the model (to be honest I haven't started the diagrams yet) :) This is because I'm new to Inkscape (it's the program I want to use to diagram my models). I'm still getting to know it.
I think that it's down to the individual to diagram their model or not, because the main reason for any hobby is enjoying it yourself. If it makes other people happy as well, that's a bonus.
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Postby joshuaorigami » January 24th, 2011, 5:04 pm

I diagram most of my better models. :) If the creator wants to remember how to fold their model, then why not just make a video of you folding it, And then decide weather to diagram it or not? That's what i do anyway...
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