The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

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The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Sroge4 » August 4th, 2011, 9:09 pm

Is there any chance that Satoshi's book will get an english translation? It looks great, but I can't read japanese :(
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby leung_wwy » August 5th, 2011, 10:28 am

As mentioned in a separate post before, I have a number of sections translated into English by a friend. If you have the japanese version, PM me with a photo of you holding the book, and I'll send you all the translated sections that I have.
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Sroge4 » August 5th, 2011, 3:53 pm

I'm not really comfortable sending you a picture of my self, but thank you anyway.
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby leung_wwy » August 6th, 2011, 1:45 am

Ha - I don't require a picture of you. Just you holding the book - your face and the rest of you isn't relevant :-)

But it's up to you :-)
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Arnold K » August 6th, 2011, 4:44 am

Why does he need to send you anything? If you have the translations, why not just send them?
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Sroge4 » August 6th, 2011, 5:48 am

Arnold K wrote:Why does he need to send you anything? If you have the translations, why not just send them?


I was wondering that too. Then I realized it's probably a legal thing, and he wants to know if I really have the book before sending it.

Sorry to say, but I don't actually have the book. I was just reading the review of it on Gilad's origami page, and wanted to know if it was going to come out in english :)

BUT, if you're really inclined, just drop me an email at samueljrogers@gmail.com (this should in no way be interpreted as asking for illegal materials)
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Arnold K » August 6th, 2011, 7:07 am

For what it is worth, the translations are always going to be illegal, it shouldn't matter if he has a physical copy. If you are willing to share the translations under any conditions, then you shouldn't have any moral reservations about sharing them with someone who stole the copy to begin with. I understand the urge to respect copyright but after some point it starts to get a little silly.
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Jonnycakes » August 6th, 2011, 4:30 pm

And why would translations be illegal if they are only for personal use? I see no problem with them if they aren't sold or publicly distributed.
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby HankSimon » August 6th, 2011, 7:12 pm

From a purely legal viewpoint, I agree that translations probably are not legal. However, from a practical viewpoint, I'm not sure that translation of this text for private use would affect sales, negatively. However, I wouldn't spread the fact publicly.

Also, a valid point that Arnold made was that we don't want to encourage people who have downloaded a clearly illicit copy to begin with, by providing a translation of the ill-gotten goods. There is a greater chance that the translations in that case might be publicly distributed
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Arnold K » August 6th, 2011, 9:29 pm

...I am not sure that is the point I made.

What I mean to say is, you clearly dont mind sharing illegal translations with someone who bought the original text. You must understand that this in itself is (technically) illegal too. It shouldn't really matter if the person you are sharing your translations with bought the text or stole it. If the point is to respect the copyright, then dont ever share your translations. If SK wanted my gaijin ass to read his book he would had the translation in it to begin with.
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Jonnycakes » August 6th, 2011, 9:57 pm

The argument that you are making is that since he is offering to do something illegal, he shouldn't care about the illegality of a separate matter (that is, pirating the book). These are two separate things. The fundamental logic of that argument is flawed-it ignores the underlying reason for distributing the translation. The translation allows English-speakers to get more out of the book (which they legally bought), yet doesn't cost Kamiya or his publisher any money. Pirating the book, arguably, does. The point is to respect Kamiya while still helping other people enjoy his book more.
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby HankSimon » August 6th, 2011, 10:35 pm

I think Arnold is right, Kamiya didn't want him reading the book :-)
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Arnold K » August 6th, 2011, 10:37 pm

You are assuming that SK wont publish a version in English eventually. If he does, then the translations would be taking money away from him. I agree that these are two separate topics, but they are at least weakly coupled. I know we are trying to respect SK, but I dont really see why it is our responsibility to police the internet on his behalf. We are a small community, arguably some of us are doing origami because of its accessibility and relative low cost. On some level, we have to admit that SK's books as well as some others have been priced out of affordability for some. Which will, in part, contribute to the motivation for some to pirate his works. This is a fact that everyone in every market or society should understand and accept. Additionally, (if you care to read about it: Free: The Future of a Radical Price by Chris Anderson[there is a free, legal, version of the audio book]) there are some really interesting arguments that show piracy improves exposure and in the long run increases the profitability of certain markets.

So lets all agree that the translations are illegal, but not so illegal so as to warrant some moral imperative to police who receives them.

If I have derailed the thread, I apologize.
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby Sroge4 » August 6th, 2011, 11:52 pm

Well, unless he DOES publish an English Version (which seems doubtful. SK doesn't publish many books, and I don't think he's going to republish this one in English), then I'm probably not going to buy the book, as I can't really get anything out of it. In any case, if leung_wwy is ok with it, I'd still like those translations :P
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Re: The World of Super Complex Origami- In english?

Postby leung_wwy » August 7th, 2011, 12:01 am

Now I am totally confused, since my intention was purely to allow people who own the book to be able to understand it better. Bearing in mind that even if SK eventually publishes an English version, someone would have had to buy the Japanese version before a translation is provided, and therefore the lost sale argument doesn't really apply. In addition, the quality of the translation is not that great (done by a uni student studying Japanese) - it currently reads like a google translate. If there is an English version in a few years, believe me, I'll be buying it too. :-)

I am still happy to offer the translations but the condition from before applies. Bearing in mind that, the book itself is full of photos, so the translation themselves wouldn't make any sense without them.

And to make it fair to SK, I'll send him an email to let him know about this. If he tells me to stop then I will - ok?

By the way, I am not a "he" :-) Just because you are male, don't assume that other people are :-)
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