When do you talk about Reverse-Engeneering?

[e-mo]

Regarding my last topic about the Baseballcap with wings....a topic arose which I was struggling with...

I was wondering when you do talk about reverse-engeneering?!
To my opnion (of course might be completely wrong)...you do reverse-engeneering, when you have a model in your hand...you can reopen all the steps and try to figure out...what the sequences are from whatever model you opened.

But not..lets say...you have only a picture of that Model...and now you are trying to figure it out..how to fold that model..is that also reverse-engeneering?!
To my opinion it is not...as it might look the same from the outside but completely different from the steps of folding.

If that is already considered of reverse-engeneering...than I think many models are reverse-engeneered...eventhought that was not intended....isnt it...for e.g. how many f16 we have...or angel fishes etc etc....

e-mo

[GrossMichael]

When you're unfolding a model you don't reverse-engineer it because you have the exactly same sequence, but from finish to start. You reverse-engineer when you look at the picture of a model and fold it. Reverse-engineering is extremely hard at more complex models because you don't know how the layers are stacked and you don't know the folds that are inside the model. Usually you'll end up with a model that looks just like the one pictured but has a different sequence or even a different base.

[Mir Numaan]

reverse engineering requires tremendous knowledge of cps. there are only a handful of people who can reverse engineer a model.

[e-mo]

are u sure by unfolding a model you know the sequence?!
I am barely able to refold a model after I unfold it......but of course...it makes it much easier to reconstruct the folding sequences...which means that would be for me the baseline for reverse-engeneering...

e-mo

[GrossMichael]

Yes, when you unfold a model you can figure the sequence out, and even if you don't you still have the CP. If you have the CP it's not reverse-engineering anymore.
Reverse-engineering is folding a model either by looking at it or at a photo of it without unfolding it. That's why it is extremely hard, and most origamists prefer to design a similar model instead.

[Gerardo]

I'm sure this isn't very useful but... there's an episode in Phineas and Ferb that explains reverse engineering: What do it do?

http://phineasandferb.wikia.com/wiki/What_Do_It_Do%3F

[Brimstone]

We have a whole gallery in these forums dedicated to models folded by people by reverse engineering them. Check it at: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1558

[maddoghoek100]

interesting, some very strong and seemingly arbitrary distinctions being made. Im not sure i would say that a crease pattern in and of it self tells you anything about a folding sequence. There are thousands of possible folding sequences that could generate an identical crease pattern, dozens of possible collapses, and beyond that on the possible shaping creases after a successful collapse. You have to use intelligence, trial and error, and a base of existing knowledge. By extension having a finished model doesn't tell you that much either. Certainly allows you to make some strong inferences, but good luck to the person unfolding a komatsu lion and trying to rebuild it with another sheet of paper in one go.

So having the cease pattern in hand and a picture of the final model is absolutely an exercise in reverse engineering. having just a picture and nothing else would be as well, and to stretch it a bit farther you could have just a verbal description.

I would think that any time you are trying to replicate an existing end product based on a limited documentation/information from the originator you are reverse engineering.

[Brimstone]

...

So having the cease pattern in hand and a picture of the final model is absolutely an exercise in reverse engineering. having just a picture and nothing else would be as well, and to stretch it a bit farther you could have just a verbal description.

That has been done too at these forums. People come and comment on a model they knew but have not much information about and give some details and someone (usually origami8) would give a folded model with the characteristics named by the person requesting help.

[Andre-4]

The admins will reply if the board is not busy...and they are feeling communicative...I actually did contact the author twice and the person was very stressed out and lambasted me for having entered their comfort zone...
awful that this person who's ego is the size of a film star who then refuses to sign autographs...
What was funny is they asked me to be silent about our exchange but still never offered an explanation of the unit or how it was assembled..
That's when I don't feel for them when another almost identical model is produced by another member of the group..
In most cases you can't do anything about it...if their is no patent or copyright...

[HankSimon]

Origami is art, just like a painting, song, or novel. If you 'copy' someone's work without permission, injuring their feelings without concern for them. In the past, some very talented origami artists stopped contributing publicly b/c of such inconsiderate actions.

A patent is one thing, but ALL creations are automatically copyrighted. There's lots of discussion and even a dedicated Web site on Origami, patents, and copyrights. There's also plenty of discussion about reverse-engineering, and about contacting an artist and respectfully following their wishes. I think Dr. Sara Adams may be the current 'authority' or most recent experienced with contact protocol ...