Shuki Kato's book

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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby origami-artist-galen » November 28th, 2012, 9:39 pm

cowburger13 wrote:I would just take the ohmu and zoanoid dragon off the list if your talking about diagrams. Crease patterns would be nice though :D I see no reason to include the v. 1 of the western dragon, as they are both pretty similar :)


Okay, I'll take that advice. 8)

phillipcurl wrote:I like the idea of selling both the book and individual diagrams, but I think the Kudu, root boorer, Ohmu, ZD, Dragonfly v4, and Parasauralophus should be included in the book. Including them would be following the underlying theme, super-complex insects and animals (including dinosaurs). I believe it would be better for sales. The book is obviously targeted at a more experienced audience, so you should probably include as many super-complex models as possible.
...

I really appreciate that you took the time and involvement to write all that up!

I like how nice and organized that all sounds, but that is still so much work! I might take up your idea removing some of the 7 insects to keep things a bit more even. About the Ohmu and ZD, I'll now probably end up drawing a cp with mountain and valley folds distinguished and then add some shaping steps --I'd assume less than 100 for both.
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby phillipcurl » November 28th, 2012, 10:24 pm

yes, it would be a lot of work, but it would be worth it.
just know, if you need help proof reading, drawing crease patterns, etc, I'm willing to help :)
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby cowburger13 » November 28th, 2012, 10:46 pm

phillipcurl wrote:yes, it would be a lot of work, but it would be worth it.
just know, if you need help proof reading, drawing crease patterns, etc, I'm willing to help :)

You and I both know how hard it is to diagram :roll: Crease patterns are fine. Andrey's book uses a similar layout with some simple and complex diagrams, and a lot of crease patterns :D
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby phillipcurl » November 28th, 2012, 10:58 pm

if it were me making the book, I would diagram most everything, and try to keep crease patterns to a minimum, including them only for the models that would be completely impractical to diagram. what I guess I am trying to say is that not many people are going to pay $50 - $100 for a book with 6 diagrams and 12 crease patterns. Yes diagramming is really hard, but I honestly think that it would be worth it in the end if he were to diagram most of the models. I'm definitely not asking Shuki to do that, and no one should. We all need to understand that its his book, he is the boss. If he wants to diagram everything, so be it. Hell, if he decides not to even make a book anymore, its his choice. I do hope that most of the models Shuki and I listed earlier are included, but as was said: diagramming is really damn hard. its not fun. The reward for all that work, for me at least, is seeing someone has folded my model. it makes me feel good, and know that someone actually appreciates all the hard work I have done making this model and the instructions. I don't care about the money I make from the diagrams I sold - I've only sold 4, anyway :P. but still, when i saw that Georigami had made a star that was inspired off my own, it made me feel really good. I can't imagine how it must feel to see this many people looking forward to your book, Shuki...

anyways. what models have you already finished diagramming?
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby cowburger13 » November 28th, 2012, 11:21 pm

While I agree I believe that some of his models are too complex! Like the gigantosaurus. That sounds insane, and Shuki even said there would probably be about 100 steps in precreasing. Never before has a model been diagrammed to have 100 steps JUST for precreasing. If he wants to diagram a lot of his simple -complex models, thats cool. But the Giganto, and the ohmu, and zoanoid, are just impossible to diagram : )
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby phillipcurl » November 28th, 2012, 11:30 pm

*giganoto, a giganto is related to the brachiosaurus ;)

I agree, it is very complex; but it is one of, if not the best dinosaur origami. Having that diagrammed would really make the book stand out, and having the flying SHB, atlas beetle, and that in it (diagrammed) would make it worth it to buy the book just for those three. The others are all just added bonuses :D
What will be great about his book is that around 80% of the models haven't been previously published, and most of the published ones were in christmas books, or only available for a limited time. in other words, not many people have the diagrams, which is unique for a super complex origami book. usually, most of the models have been previously taught or published. Just look at Kamiya's newest book - every single model had been previously published, a cp released, or taught in class. I don't own any of the diagrams though, except like one or two, so it doesn't matter to me :mrgreen:
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby cowburger13 » November 28th, 2012, 11:38 pm

whoops :D
I guess, but it will be hell for him.
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby origami-artist-galen » November 29th, 2012, 1:13 am

phillipcurl wrote:yes, it would be a lot of work, but it would be worth it.
just know, if you need help proof reading, drawing crease patterns, etc, I'm willing to help :)


Sure thing ;)

cowburger13 wrote:While I agree I believe that some of his models are too complex! Like the gigantosaurus. That sounds insane, and Shuki even said there would probably be about 100 steps in precreasing. Never before has a model been diagrammed to have 100 steps JUST for precreasing. If he wants to diagram a lot of his simple -complex models, thats cool. But the Giganto, and the ohmu, and zoanoid, are just impossible to diagram : )


The giganotosaurus may be hard, but it's still not in the same league as those two. And though the model's references could be found by folding a 90x90 grid, there is a much easier way to do it. I believe my earlier estimate of 100 steps was way off and I'll be able to add a ton of creases per step early on and have a total of 35-50 steps of precreasing (in the same realm as the kabutomushi and Western Dragon). Then again I thought the kabutomushi would have about 250 steps and it ended up closer to 350...
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby Raptorex55 » November 29th, 2012, 4:40 am

I like the idea for the Ohmu and ZD. It creates a challenge, while removing some of the guesswork. Shaping steps would be enormously helpful as I find this to be the most challenging aspects of working from a crease pattern. It would not be unlike the Quyet's horse which includes, the M/V CP, steps to find refernces, and then begins the diagram for shaping with the base. :) I say Go for it Shuki! Your book will be invaluable! And like Phillip, I think any one of us would be happy to proofread, test etc. I know I would, especially where dinosaurs are concerned :mrgreen:
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby yohohohowo » November 29th, 2012, 5:13 am

I've been following this thread for a while. Also last night, I spent a few hours browsing through all of Shuki's flickr. I really feel that you should leave some of the super complex stuff as CP's, simply as something to strive for. I'm willing to bet that the feeling of figuring out a complex cp and figuring out how to fold it, and make it look good is way more rewarding that simply folding from diagrams. I'm still learning cp folding and look forward to folding more complex stuff from cp's. I'd rather fold something from cp and know that I'm part of an elite group of super awesome origami folders. Worldwide fame will surely follow.

After looking through your folds, I'd love to see a huge section dedicated to your folding techniques, including tricks that you've developed to create such immaculate folds.
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby steingar » November 29th, 2012, 3:52 pm

I'm starting to sound like my parents, but oh well. Keep in mind that you guys have relatively ready access to publishers and people who will distribute your work. When I started writing I had to diagram everything and then go try and find a publisher. If I had the resources available to you guys I'd be feverishly diagramming no matter what it took. A lot of people did it for me, I always seek to return the favor.
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby cowburger13 » December 5th, 2012, 3:04 am

Hey Shuki,
Any updates?
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby origami-artist-galen » December 5th, 2012, 6:28 am

Raptorex55 wrote:I like the idea for the Ohmu and ZD. It creates a challenge, while removing some of the guesswork. Shaping steps would be enormously helpful as I find this to be the most challenging aspects of working from a crease pattern. It would not be unlike the Quyet's horse which includes, the M/V CP, steps to find refernces, and then begins the diagram for shaping with the base. :) I say Go for it Shuki! Your book will be invaluable! And like Phillip, I think any one of us would be happy to proofread, test etc. I know I would, especially where dinosaurs are concerned :mrgreen:


Thanks! And I'll let you test fold at least one of the dinos when I come to that.

yohohohowo wrote:I've been following this thread for a while. Also last night, I spent a few hours browsing through all of Shuki's flickr. I really feel that you should leave some of the super complex stuff as CP's, simply as something to strive for. I'm willing to bet that the feeling of figuring out a complex cp and figuring out how to fold it, and make it look good is way more rewarding that simply folding from diagrams. I'm still learning cp folding and look forward to folding more complex stuff from cp's. I'd rather fold something from cp and know that I'm part of an elite group of super awesome origami folders. Worldwide fame will surely follow.

After looking through your folds, I'd love to see a huge section dedicated to your folding techniques, including tricks that you've developed to create such immaculate folds.


Well, the plan is full diagrams for everything except the Zoanoid Dragon and Ohmu, I could possibly throw in some box pleated designs as well. When I fold from a cp it usually takes twice as long as from diagrams, you eliminate all extraneous creases and can fold much more accurately, but is it worth it?
I'm not giving away any of my folding secrets! No, what I mean is there's not much to it, just fold slowly and precisely in the beginning and the same in the end when you get to all the shaping.


cowburger13 wrote:Hey Shuki,
Any updates?


My original schedule has been sidetracked, now I'm diagramming two different 'bugs' which if everything goes well will be available in a separate book first with a bunch of different authors (that's all I can say for now :D) once that's done, I plan on returning to the Giganotosaurus and Kudu; the kudu being something I think would be more enjoyable to diagram. I did draw some of the precreasing steps for the Giganoto and can't figure out the best way to go on from that point.
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby cowburger13 » December 5th, 2012, 1:39 pm

Some bugs? :P Are these unpublished designs? And are you talking about tanteidan? :shock:
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Re: Shuki Kato's book

Postby origami-artist-galen » December 5th, 2012, 6:18 pm

cowburger13 wrote:Some bugs? :P Are these unpublished designs? And are you talking about tanteidan? :shock:


Yes, and no. 8) If all goes as planned I might make some money on the side, and if it wasn't very obvious from my last post, both models will be in the book as well, so it's not really being sidetracked.
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