Paper Problems

cowboywill37 · Post by **cowboywill37** » November 17th, 2009, 5:32 am

I am working on some models by Fumiaki Kawahata. There are several places that the layers that I am working with seem to be too thick to deal with. What is a good thin but strong paper that would be good for his dinosaur models?

Post by **TheRealChris** » November 17th, 2009, 9:06 am

instead of thinner you could simply use bigger sheets of paper
if not, try out thin Kraftpaper, MC or Tissue Foil

check out these topics

Wolf wrote:Paper types, what paper should I use for model X? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Tissue foil: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Backcoating, wetfolding, methylcellulose and friends (MC/CMC): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

legionzilla · Post by **legionzilla** » November 17th, 2009, 11:17 am

Kraft paper, Tant paper and tissue foil/ double tissue/ sandwich paper all work pretty well.

bethnor · Post by **bethnor** » November 17th, 2009, 4:11 pm

everything from origami fantasy can be folded successfully from ordinary kami.

FrumiousBandersnatch · November 17th, 2009, 5:46 pm

everything from origami fantasy can be folded successfully from ordinary kami.

Every time someone asks about paper choice, someone posts that elitest B.S.

Zoraz · Post by **Zoraz** » November 17th, 2009, 8:01 pm

If your problem is thickness, stay away from tant, and only use Kraft if its like the really thin stuff from Terry's shop. Double tissue and tissue foil are always good choices.

bethnor · Post by **bethnor** » November 17th, 2009, 8:39 pm

FrumiousBandersnatch wrote: Every time someone asks about paper choice, someone posts that elitest B.S.

what is elitest about it? it has nothing to do with skill or anything (quite the opposite, actually, since kami is easier to manipulate than foil). some of us don't feel like making tissue foil or double mc tissue or resizing expensive imported papers. some of us don't even have the means to do so (i don't have a garage, and the largest, flatest surface in my apartment is not even 2' x 4'). so the easiest source of precut squares in a variety of colors is kami. will the model always be display quality? no. will it splay? yes. so what? what's elitest?

i made an ancient dragon with four pieces of kami taped together. did it rip? yes. were the legs the size of beer cans? yes. could i have put it on display at the guggenheim? no. but it gave me an idea of the pitfalls and difficult steps in the model, and best of all, i didn't waste a piece of tissue foil that i labored over. if ppl want to spend the time to do those things, great. by pointing out that you can use kami, i'm saying you don't have to.

ahudson · Post by **ahudson** » November 18th, 2009, 12:02 am

FrumiousBandersnatch wrote:
everything from origami fantasy can be folded successfully from ordinary kami.
Every time someone asks about paper choice, someone posts that elitest B.S.

It isn't "elitist B.S."... you really CAN fold almost anything from 10" kami. Printer paper is a little more limited, but still applies to everything except supercomplex and boxpleated models.

When it comes down to it, how you work with the paper has much more to do with the end result than what paper you choose. It's like playing a violin-- even if you buy a Stradivarius, you're still going to sound bad unless you practice.

Jonnycakes · Post by **Jonnycakes** » November 18th, 2009, 12:34 am

Cowboywill, what kind of paper have you been using?

cowboywill37 · Post by **cowboywill37** » November 18th, 2009, 4:37 am

I used regular Kraft paper I got from Michael's. I was trying to faold the Pteranadon from Origami Fantasy the central body sections and the lower jaw had so many layers that it was hard to get a crease that layed flat and looked neat.

FrumiousBandersnatch · November 18th, 2009, 5:08 am

It's like playing a violin-- even if you buy a Stradivarius, you're still going to sound bad unless you practice.

I get what you guys are saying, that it's possible, however possibly not the best choice.

My point is this: Yes, a lot of things can be folded from just kami. Are those such realistic aspirations that it should be touted every time someone asks what size to fold something? It takes a lot of skill to fold supercomplex things out of appropriate paper, and even more to fold them out of crappy Kami. That's what makes the statement elitest. It's made by someone of the elite cadre of folders who can fold an ancient dragon out of 10 inch kami. It just sets up unrealistic standards for what is likely that person's first fold-through, thats all I'm saying.

Jonnycakes · Post by **Jonnycakes** » November 18th, 2009, 5:45 am

Even if you can fold an Ancient Dragon out of 10" kami, it is going to look horrible because of the paper. A professional violinist playing on a student model in disrepair will still sound bad (or, for clarinetists like me, even Larry Combs would not be able to play well on a plastic Vito with leaks and a bad reed).

bethnor · Post by **bethnor** » November 18th, 2009, 6:34 am

FrumiousBandersnatch wrote:It's made by someone of the elite cadre of folders who can fold an ancient dragon out of 10 inch kami.

i said nothing of the sort.

i have encouraged--multiple times--first timers with the ancient dragon to tape four pieces of kami together. i actually did mine the first time with four pieces of 35 cm kami taped together, not the standard 25 cm. making a large square thus takes less then 5 min. you don't need a well ventilated area, you don't need to figure out the proper ratio of mc to water or water to glue, you don't need to let it dry overnight, and you can give it a go right away. if you mess up--no big deal, you tape another four pieces together and try again.

even with a T-square, a cutting mat, and an exacto knife, it can be hard to get a perfect 50 cm square piece of paper. when i try, most of the time, i am slightly off. it's not a big deal, but i believe that most people who fold are somewhat exacting in nature, and not having a perfect square is mildly annoying. putting together four (not quite perfect) squares solves that problem as well.

yes, it looks not so great in the end, but now that you know how to do it, go at it with a piece of good paper. TBH, i'm always surprised when folks recommend stuff like tissue foil for the ancient dragon. the difficulty with reversing a crease and doing a sink with foil is exacerbated by tissue foil, so step 85 would be really annoying, especially if you're not used to complex origami, as there is no way to open the model and get traction. reversing a crease and sinking with kami is effortless by comparison.

for the record, as well, most everything in origami fantasy looks great with ordinary kami. many of the models in the front pages look to be folded from kami. off-hand, the only one that really doesn't work is the allosaurus, and only because the legs require a lot of 3-D shaping.

ETA: one can see, that though many folders use kraft, the product as a whole is very heterogeneous. like the OP, i find kraft that one picks up at michael's to be far too soft and springy, so layers tend to separate and splay even worse than kami. if one has experience with finishing with mc, this might be viable. as i said, though, the pteradon looks great with kami (as does his '99 pteradon).

origamimasterjared · November 18th, 2009, 7:02 am

Actually, elitist BS would be to recommend custom-making paper at Origamido studio every time. : )

Adam · Post by **Adam** » November 18th, 2009, 12:10 pm

Bethnor, in your original post you never mentioned taping multiple sheets together, hence Frumious ( and I ) thought you meant using sheets of 10" ( for example ). Saying that very complex models can be done from 10" kami is indeed an elitist statement, and it is in no way helpful. Yes, it can be done, but people look for nice results rather than having to fold with tweezers and ending up with a model that is hardly recognizable. By saying that something can be done with a simple kami sheet implies that if you fail at that you're a terrible origamist.

For the record, I don't own Origami Fantasy, so I can't really say anything about that, but rather than saying that you could do something with kami, it would be nicer to say which paper you should use.